Am I an enigma or does running not carry over to bjj?

[Boilingice]

For a hobbyist I am a pretty decent runner and run several times a week (18mins for 3miles, close to 1:30 half marathon). I also mix in interval sprints. Anyway when it comes to bjj you would think I was fat and out of shape. After a few rolls I am on verge of passing out.


Is there anything I can do aside from just rolling more? Really hurts my ability to train as much as I would like.

Thanks

 

[Balto]

You are most likely running at a lower heart rate than you are rolling at in BJJ.

Solution: dial back your BJJ intensity to more closely match your running intensity.

 

[portland]

The coaches at my gym have always told me to do interval sprints over distance running if I can't make it into the gym and want to get a workout in. I'm the exact opposite as you. I can roll for an hour but am dead from running after a mile.

 

[Boilingice]

Yea thats why I wonder if I have a medical condition or something weird. I do .25 and .5 miles 'sprints' which I imagine puts my heart close to a roll.

I dont roll with a heart rate monitor though

 

[Balto]

The coaches at my gym have always told me to do interval sprints over distance running if I can't make it into the gym and want to get a workout in. I'm the exact opposite as you. I can roll for an hour but am dead from running after a mile.

The solution will probably be the same advice as I gave above. Just switch it around.

There's a general guideline heart rate called the lactate threshold. It's a little different for everybody. But you can estimate yours pretty well by doing a little test. You can do like a 30 minute jog as far and fast as you can without stopping, and just average your heart rate over the last 20 minutes. That gets pretty close.

When guys who are otherwise in shape gas out in BJJ, it is usually because they are new. It happens all the time. Since they are new, they are nervous, and their heart rate shoots up way over their lactate threshold. Accordingly, they gas out within a few minutes because that is about the time limit for heavy use of the anaerobic energy system.

This goes away as you get more skilled because you are able to accomplish the same things using less effort and staying more relaxed. This keeps your heart rate lower. As long as you are under your lactate threshold, you should be able to go for an entire BJJ session with no issues.

 

[cms9690]

How long have you been doing Sub Grappling?

It could be that your technique is bad and you make up for it by exerting yourself into gassing.

 

[lowdown1]

I'm going to assume you haven't been training long and muscle a lot. Once you learn to flow and coast. Your distance running will play a part in conditioning. Grappling is more like sprinting short bursts and jogging in between. I think it's funny when people say. "I have to get in shape to grapple" well the only way to do that is GRAPPLE.

 

[Balto]

Yea thats why I wonder if I have a medical condition or something weird. I do .25 and .5 miles 'sprints' which I imagine puts my heart close to a roll.

I dont roll with a heart rate monitor though

You are going to be able to sprint 1/4 mile in a lot less time than a roll though. I assume you are rolling 5-10 minutes at a time. I'm sure you run 1/4 mile much faster than that.

So if your heart rate for your 1/4 mile sprint equals your heart rate when you roll, that is your problem right there. You need to roll with the same kind of heart rate you'd run a 5K with, not a 1/4 mile sprint.

 

[Einarr]

Wear your gi while you're running. Trust me, it will help.

 

[cms9690]

You are going to be able to sprint 1/4 mile in a lot less time than a roll though. I assume you are rolling 5-10 minutes at a time. I'm sure you run 1/4 mile much faster than that.

So if your heart rate for your 1/4 mile sprint equals your heart rate when you roll, that is your problem right there. You need to roll with the same kind of heart rate you'd run a 5K with, not a 1/4 mile sprint.

That and the fact that you use different muscles while grappling rather than running.

Grappling is similar to doing complexes with lightly using jacob's ladder in between sets.

 

[Uchi Mata]

It's funny, when you first start grappling no matter how good of shape you're in from other sports you'll get winded really quickly. I think it's a combination of not being able to relax plus having to coordinate movement in ways only grappling requires. It's very taxing mentally and physically at first. After you've gotten better as a grappler, things like HIIT will definitely help your stamina since you're now over the initial tension of learning to roll. I find interval training with sprints on 3-4 mile runs to be extremely helpful when gearing up for a tournament.

 

[Thai Otoshi]

It's funny, when you first start grappling no matter how good of shape you're in from other sports you'll get winded really quickly. I think it's a combination of not being able to relax plus having to coordinate movement in ways only grappling requires. It's very taxing mentally and physically at first. After you've gotten better as a grappler, things like HIIT will definitely help your stamina since you're now over the initial tension of learning to roll. I find interval training with sprints on 3-4 mile runs to be extremely helpful when gearing up for a tournament.

I've been doing HIIT for the past couple of months now. It's worked wonders.

I used to need a gurney when I left my judo club, but now I'm able to exit under my own power.

@TS: Regular (aerobic) jogging just doesn't cut it for combat sports, which are all a varying mix of aerobic and anaerobic types of exercise.

High intensity interval training is the way to go. Start with a light jog to get your muscles warmed up then sprint balls out for 20 seconds, jog for ten, sprint balls out for another 20 seconds, jog for ten, repeating a minimum of 8x.

 

[Kenny from MD]

I assume runners work on their form, yes?
I assume with good form, you run more efficiently and running is easier.
BJJ is the same.
You are probably tense, and compensating for the lack of what you know by over working, thus getting tired.
I am in shape and can roll for a long time, but if I ran, it would be spastic and I get tired quick. It's not as simple as just being in good physical shape.

 

[Zankou]

I've been doing HIIT for the past couple of months now. It's worked wonders.

I used to need a gurney when I left my judo club, but now I'm able to exit under my own power.

@TS: Regular (aerobic) jogging just doesn't cut it for combat sports, which are all a varying mix of aerobic and anaerobic types of exercise.

High intensity interval training is the way to go. Start with a light jog to get your muscles warmed up then sprint balls out for 20 seconds, jog for ten, sprint balls out for another 20 seconds, jog for ten, repeating a minimum of 8x.

HIIT is the truth.

But in reality TS's problem is probably due to lacking the technique required to be relaxed. If you are already in decent overall shape, almost every cardio problem in BJJ is usually more of a technique problem. The biggest symptom is the classic "newb death grip," where the guy is spending a ton of energy tensing his arms and holding but not really doing anything.

I still have this problem in judo. It takes a lot of time to get over it. :icon_sad: Got to constantly remind yourself to relax your arms and use proper posture instead of trying to use continuous arm strength.

 

[Thai Otoshi]

HIIT is the truth.

But in reality TS's problem is probably due to lacking the technique required to be relaxed. If you are already in decent overall shape, almost every cardio problem in BJJ is usually more of a technique problem. The biggest symptom is the classic "newb death grip," where the guy is spending a ton of energy tensing his arms and holding but not really doing anything.

I still have this problem in judo. It takes a lot of time to get over it. :icon_sad: Got to constantly remind yourself to relax your arms and use proper posture instead of trying to use continuous arm strength.

I agree to an extent, but I think the side effects of the noob death grip would be reduced if he did some HIIT.

For example, in judo I do the same thing you're saying you do. I still feel pretty good at the end of practice though, because my cardio is leaps better than it used to be.

 

[Balto]

I've been doing HIIT for the past couple of months now. It's worked wonders.

I used to need a gurney when I left my judo club, but now I'm able to exit under my own power.

@TS: Regular (aerobic) jogging just doesn't cut it for combat sports, which are all a varying mix of aerobic and anaerobic types of exercise.

High intensity interval training is the way to go. Start with a light jog to get your muscles warmed up then sprint balls out for 20 seconds, jog for ten, sprint balls out for another 20 seconds, jog for ten, repeating a minimum of 8x.

Regular aerobic stuff works great for me. It has a long history with combat sports too. "You need to put in your roadwork" is something you hear all the time.

Interval training is beneficial too, but it's not going to substitute for basic aerobic training. Most people don't need to do much extra though because the actual rolling part is basic aerobic training once you get over the newbie hump. You just basically get out there and work at your pace for 45 minutes or so, taking a couple breaks in between, and doing little bursts occasionally where you need to.

It's actually the interval training that is not so much like rolling. That's why it's beneficial to do it outside of BJJ though because you won't get that from just doing BJJ. Nobody rolls balls out twice as much time as they roll at a more relaxed pace. If you are really going balls out, you might sustain that for 8x in your example, i.e. 240 seconds, i.e. 6 minutes. Then what about the rest of class?

Not everything you train needs to be exactly like what you do in BJJ. Nobody really bench presses people, but it can help to the bench press in a weight routine to make you stronger. You're never going to do a set of 5 heavy bench press movements in BJJ, so if you want to train that attribute, you need to do so off the mat.

If you can run six minute miles like the TS, you can roll through a class just fine. You just need to learn to relax while you are rolling. That's just a skill issue that takes some time. It's not a disease or grappling cardio being totally different. It's just being shitty at grappling, moving very inefficiently, spiking your heart rate trying to keep from losing, and gassing out accordingly.

 

[dmesser2]

grappling takes a mix of all metabolic systems while distance running is only aerobic. Since you're a strong runner you will have a well developed aerobic system, but will be underdeveloped in other areas. Work on your weaknesses whether thats strength, anaerobic system, or something else. Its a matter of improving the weakest link in your chain.

That being said new guys will always gas until they learn to relax and develop better technique. Keep this in mind, but don't let it deter you from improving your fitness as well, both are worthy goals.

 

[Balto]

I think people in general tend to dog aerobic training way too much. It's very useful for BJJ.

You are always using your aerobic system for everything, even anaerobic stuff. Anaerobic activities are just the max capacity of your aerobic system + extra anaerobic power to give you a boost. Your body will never turn off its aerobic system and go pure anaerobic. That would be like walking into a room with no oxygen available. Even if you were just sitting in a chair, you'd pass out quickly and die. Anaerobic on its own can't even provide enough energy to keep you alive for ten minutes.

The processes that refresh your alactic anaerobic stores are also aerobic in nature. So having a strong aerobic system will benefit your anaerobic endurance in that way as well. You will simply recover faster between bursts.

Everybody is different and you do need to work on the weak part of your chain if you want to improve, but pure aerobic fitness is a very big part of having successful BJJ cardio.

 

[Ahm]

Another issue is that running is all about maintaing your heartbeat constant for a long time. You basically get very well conditioned to do a specific amount of work on a specific heartbeat, in other words you get you pace.

but in grappling, there is a lot of explosion, and anaerobic work. so it is very different from running and you need another kind of gas.

so you aren't an enigma at all, this is entirely normal.

 

[FinBJJ]

I don't do much cardio besides BJJ, but I'm often the one pushing the pace when others get tired. I credit a lot of it to cleaning up my diet. I eat a LOT less meat or other animal products nowadays and naturally replaced them with vegetables, especially legumes.