A look back: UFC 38 - Ian Freeman v Frank Mir

[treelo]

My very first UFC PPV this one and the very first UFC event in the UK, and probably still the best.

Frank Mir who was the up and coming undefeated star of HW UFC coming up against journeyman Ian Freeman, but little did most people know that Freeman was fighting for his father who(unknown to him had passed away the day before the fight) had cancer at the time.

Much like Buster Douglas in boxing, Freeman was a man possessed and simply battered Mir into submission in what was a brutal fight.



A very vivid memory for me and a HUGE upset at the time

 

[AmericanMMA]

Mir shouldn't have taken that fight in London!

 

[Megatronlee]

If I could run my own Mma org that’s how all fights would be stopped

“you wanna be a man and fight ? Or you wanna way out?”

 

[modulus]

Not as bad as the motorcycle accident, but a low point for an up coming Mir.

 

[Goodfella86]

That was one of the first very big upsets that I remember. The story with his dad, while awful, was awesome as a backdrop for that fight. Such a cool moment, especially in England. No wonder Lee was so amped up that night.

 

[AMAZINGUFC]

Mir applied a never-before-seen kneebar. It would have been a unique submission.

And what the hell did he do when he got the takedown and was on top? That's where he lost the fight...

 

[jeff7b9]

Good call.

He fucked Frank up.

Very interesting stoppage.
Frank couldn't stand up.
He was hurt BAD.

 

[Bullitt68]

Mir's problem was always that he lacked defense. He was 100% offense on the ground. His offense was incredible, so he'd often tap guys, but if you could stop his submissions, then it was basically free GNP. And if you noticed Josh Barnett in Freeman's corner - a future opponent of Mir's - then you had to assume that Freeman was schooled in leg lock defense.

UFC 38 also featured as the main event arguably Matt Hughes' most dominant GNP display, as he crushed Carlos Newton and showcased the effectiveness of the crucifix position (which he'd later use to also stop BJ Penn).

 

[treelo]

i think Mir suffered some real bad concussion early on, he decided it would be better to keep with the sub rather than defend himself..and got pummeled

 

[mkt]

Mir's problem was always that he lacked defense. He was 100% offense on the ground. His offense was incredible, so he'd often tap guys, but if you could stop his submissions, then it was basically free GNP. And if you noticed Josh Barnett in Freeman's corner - a future opponent of Mir's - then you had to assume that Freeman was schooled in leg lock defense.

UFC 38 also featured as the main event arguably Matt Hughes' most dominant GNP display, as he crushed Carlos Newton and showcased the effectiveness of the crucifix position (which he'd later use to also stop BJ Penn).

Yeah, this fight sadly ruins any arguments that Mir could've been GOAT-ish if not for his motorcycle accident, since it happened beforehand. No doubt the accident caused a long layoff and an in-shape Mir would've done better vs. Cruz and Vera and maybe beat them (two fights after his return from the accident where he came in fat). But it showcased Mir's weakness that was there before the accident.

 

[Lee_]

Mir spent too much time going for the sub and not enough defending himself on the ground.

Like let go if he is pounding your face, Frank.

Lesson well learned.

 

[Bullitt68]

Yeah, this fight sadly ruins any arguments that Mir could've been GOAT-ish if not for his motorcycle accident, since it happened beforehand. No doubt the accident caused a long layoff and an in-shape Mir would've done better vs. Cruz and Vera and maybe beat them (two fights after his return from the accident where he came in fat). But it showcased Mir's weakness that was there before the accident.

Oh, yeah, I'd never consider Mir GOAT material. Not at any point, and not even just confined to HW. He was incredibly dangerous and he's one of the slickest submission specialists, but he had way too many holes in his game. In the early days, he also had zero conditioning. And he proudly boasted about not giving a fuck about cardio because he was so sure that he'd submit you in 60 seconds. Well, in comes Wes Sims and their UFC 46 fight - the rematch after Sims got disqualified in their first fight at UFC 43 for stomping Mir for a PRIDE-style finish - was a train wreck with a gassed Mir slugging with a gassed Sims. And he'd barely gone beyond the halfway point of a three-rounder.

For Mir fans, the first Nogueira fight was such a treat because it looked like he'd turned a corner and had finally become the Mir that we thought he was poised to become after he became the HW champ, but even so, strong wrestlers were always going to pose a problem for him, and while his striking had improved dramatically, he was still not going to be a match for any high-level strikers.

Always in the mix with the top guys, and for a hot second he was the top guy in the UFC, but never in line for GOAT IMO.

 

[Elvis.]

You can see that the adrenaline is just starting to wear off and Freeman’s knee is just starting to swell as he exits the cage , I read somewhere after the fight that his knee was in really bad shape but he just decided he wasn’t tapping. If I had to guess it was the reverse heel hook more than the inverted kneebar that did the damage

 

[Fioretti]

Our introduction to Mir's kryptonite.

 

[Bullitt68]

You can see that the adrenaline is just starting to wear off and Freeman’s knee is just starting to swell as he exits the cage , I read somewhere after the fight that his knee was in really bad shape but he just decided he wasn’t tapping. If I had to guess it was the reverse heel hook more than the inverted kneebar that did the damage

You're remembering correctly. You're probably going to be surprised - as I was - to see this as a Fox News story, but Freeman himself has talked about it: https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ian-...h-of-his-life-before-facing-his-fathers-death.

Midway through the first round, Mir grabbed onto Freeman's leg and started to apply a heel hook, which is one of the most dangerous submissions in the sport. The hold torques at the ankle, twisting and turning a fighter's knee, and that's what happened to Freeman.

Freeman will never forget the sound of his own knee popping, and he knows both Mir and referee "Big" John McCarthy heard it too. But still he refused to tap.

"He had me in the heel hook and my knee was popping. My knee was cracking," Freeman said.

"I wanted to scream out with pain but I knew John McCarthy would stop it, so I just ignored it, grabbed his head and just started pounding into his face. It was tremendous pain but pain is temporary."

Freeman, who says he still has problems with that knee, hammered away at Mir until he finally slipped free of the hold and landed on top. Freeman began raining down shots on Mir and with each punch he could feel his opponent fading.

Finally, Freeman trapped Mir against the cage and started unloading a barrage of elbows and punches until he stood back up on his feet again. McCarthy instructed Mir to stand, but the future heavyweight champion stumbled and eventually fell back to his knees.

The referee stopped the fight and Freeman leapt onto the cage wall where he celebrated with his hometown fans. He jumped down and attempted to do the same on the other side, but his knee was so damaged from the submission that he couldn't handle the pain to climb up the cage again.

In Freeman's career, he'd previously lost by leg lock to the early leg lock wizard Scott Adams. That experience, plus training with Josh Barnett, he was a lot more familiar with leg locks. For a lot of people, leg locks were for a long time so unfamiliar and weird that I think that the strangeness added to the fear and even before the pain, people would tap. But Freeman had lost by leg lock, then he'd trained with a catch wrestler...against Mir, he just didn't give a fuck. He knew what he was in for, he was familiar with the position, and he was just going to bite down on his mouthguard and endure whatever he had to in order to beat the fuck out of Mir.

 

[Tweak896]

Ian Freeman was doing good against Mir on the ground, not bad. Crazy how he basically was thrown to the wolves for his UFC career. Mir, Arlovski, and Vernon White. Only lost to Arlovski and got cut. Looked like a small HW against them too.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

My very first UFC PPV this one and the very first UFC event in the UK, and probably still the best.

Frank Mir who was the up and coming undefeated star of HW UFC coming up against journeyman Ian Freeman, but little did most people know that Freeman was fighting for his father who(unknown to him had passed away the day before the fight) had cancer at the time.

Much like Buster Douglas in boxing, Freeman was a man possessed and simply battered Mir into submission in what was a brutal fight.



A very vivid memory for me and a HUGE upset at the time

Bruh Mir coming out with the Head kicks was crazy ...

It was tough fight ...good scrap

 

[Bullitt68]

Ian Freeman was doing good against Mir on the ground, not bad. Crazy how he basically was thrown to the wolves for his UFC career. Mir, Arlovski, and Vernon White. Only lost to Arlovski and got cut. Looked like a small HW against them too.

And the only reason that Freeman fought Vernon White is because Vernon stepped in for his injured coach. That was originally supposed to be Ken Shamrock's return to HW, but he still needed time to heal the bum knee that he fought Tito on, so he'd take a little longer and not return to action until UFC 48. That would've been a cool match-up, and sadly, one of many - like the originally planned Ken Shamrock/Igor Vovchanchyn fight at PRIDE 13 that became instead the best win of Tra Telligman's career in a super underrated upset barn burner - that we missed out on during Ken's post-WWF injury-riddled comeback. But imagine that list being Mir, Arlovski, and Shamrock.

Bruh Mir coming out with the Head kicks was crazy ...

Mir always had good kicks. His first martial art was Karate as a kid. He'd been throwing kicks for a lot of years. He also opened with a bunch of kicks against Tim Sylvia, and it was by catching a kick and throwing a straight right that Sylvia ended up on the ground with Mir and gave Mir the opportunity for the armbar, because Sylvia's TDD was always top notch and he could've/should've been able to sprawl-and-brawl and crush Mir on the feet.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

And the only reason that Freeman fought Vernon White is because Vernon stepped in for his injured coach. That was originally supposed to be Ken Shamrock's return to HW, but he still needed time to heal the bum knee that he fought Tito on, so he'd take a little longer and not return to action until UFC 48. That would've been a cool match-up, and sadly, one of many - like the originally planned Ken Shamrock/Igor Vovchanchyn fight at PRIDE 13 that became instead the best win of Tra Telligman's career in a super underrated upset barn burner - that we missed out on during Ken's post-WWF injury-riddled comeback. But imagine that list being Mir, Arlovski, and Shamrock.



Mir always had good kicks. His first martial arts was Karate as a kid. He'd been throwing kicks for a lot of years. He also opened with a bunch of kicks against Tim Sylvia, and it was by catching a kick and throwing a straight right that Sylvia ended up on the ground with Mir and gave Mir the opportunity for the armbar, because Sylvia's TDD was always top notch and he could've/should've been able to sprawl-and-brawl and crush Mir on the feet.

I know he did...im just saying we dont get to see stuff like that anymore and post motorcycle Mir was never able to do quite as much striking..

That was crisp as hell and fast for a HW

Mirs one of my favorite HWs

 

[Bullitt68]

I know he did...im just saying we dont get to see stuff like that anymore and post motorcycle Mir was never able to do quite as much striking.

True. Again, that's why the first Nogueira fight was so cool, because his striking was better than ever before and he even mixed in some kicks. But you're right, the fluidity of his movements, the speed and agility and flexibility, none of it was the same post-accident.

That was crisp as hell and fast for a HW

Especially in his early days, Mir was definitely one of the quicker HWs. I think that it was Rogan who said that Mir's uniqueness as a HW grappler was that he used "small man jiu-jitsu," i.e. focusing on technique and speed rather than position and power. And he was able to do that because he moved so well and was so quick despite being 6'3'' 240+.

Mirs one of my favorite HWs

When I was doing BJJ in high school, two of my friends were HUGE Mir fans. One of them started an account on here around the time of Mir's initial comeback when he was fat and fighting like shit, and he picked the name mirsgut. The other friend put as his signature, "I jerk off to the thought of a 240lb Frank Mir." There was even a fun moment when I was rolling with one of them and I went for an omoplata, he was on his knees defending, and then I started reaching back for his foot and he immediately went, "You trying to Mir me?"



I had to admit that that's exactly what I was trying to do, and nowhere near as successfully