Defensive wrestling should be scored as much as offensive wrestling, if not more

[Regal Boy]

Lay and pray, wall and stall, or just "control" on the ground that does not have any damage or submissions should not reward the aggressor. That a fighter can literally just lay on top of an opponent or push him up against the cage and win, despite not doing any damage and being out wrestled by the defender, is a blight on this sport and needs to end. It ruins a huge amount of fights and makes the sport more boring than it actually is, and most importantly, it is not indicative of actual martial ability, as in a "real" fight, defensive wrestling is just as important as offensive wrestling. But the scoring system does not reflect this.

Defending submissions, takedowns, or out wrestling a wrestler and stopping him from holding you down, are themselves techniques that should be rewarded. If I try to take you down 5 times and only succeed once, those failed attempts should not just be ignored like a missed strike is. You as the defender who stuffed the takedown have used your superior wrestling ability to defend my attacks, and you should be rewarded for this, and the score would be 1 to 4 in your favor.

If I take you down and "control" you on the ground for 2 or 3 minutes, but I am unable to turn this into any damage and can't make any submission attempts because you are successfully defending against me the whole time, and you shrimp get out and stand up, you as the defender should be rewarded for outwrestling me over that entire period of time. I wanted to beat you up on the ground, but you beat me and stopped me from doing so with your superior skill. Your wrestling beat mine, and you should be rewarded on the points for this. I should NOT be rewarded for "control on the ground" when in objective reality, you outwrestled me, you defended all my attempts at hurting you, and you used your superior wrestling ability to escape. I failed while you succeeded. The score should reflect this reality.

Submissions are the coolest part of this sport, wrestling and grappling are really exciting to watch and very effective in a fight, but this shit is neither exciting to watch nor is it actually a good way to actually fight. It's an artificial strategy born from a stupid scoring system, it should be ended. This one scoring system change would basically fix everything wrong with this sport, and it would do it without sacrificing anything that the fighters are allowed to do.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Defense is it's own reward. We don't score defending submissions or evading striking. They've done enough to the rules and scoring criteria to offset wrestling. You're being outrageous.

 

[Regal Boy]

Defense is it's own reward. We don't score defending submissions or evading striking. They've done enough to the rules and scoring criteria to offset wrestling. You're being outrageous.

Except it isn't it's own reward, because I can be aggressive but fail the whole fight, and be outwrestled by you the entire time, but still win on the points, because of the system. This in spite of the reality that you outwrestled me the whole time.

 

[nostradumbass]

Blocking or avoiding punches should also count more than punching someone.

If you try to punch me 150 times and 80 don't even land, that should be like me landing 80 punches.

 

[Regal Boy]

Blocking or avoiding punches should also count more than punching someone.

If you try to punch me 150 times and 80 don't even land, that should be like me landing 80 punches.

Wrestling and striking are not the same thing and do not be scored the same way. We are perfectly capable of rewarding offensive striking more than defensive striking, and defensive wrestling more than offensive wrestling.

There does not need to be an equal relation here.

 

[Apect15]

- Islam beat Volk on feet did more damage before takedown
-Volk landed few pinch lighting arm strikers lmao
-Volk was getting controlled for 3 minutes
-control matters when fighters don't do much but Islam beat Volk on feet
Islam clearly won 4th round

 

[Regal Boy]

Blocking or avoiding punches should also count more than punching someone.

If you try to punch me 150 times and 80 don't even land, that should be like me landing 80 punches.

IF you really want to make the comparison for strikes, it would be like this

Imagine I threw 300 strikes in a fight and didn't land a single strike. You did not throw a single punch, but you weaved every one of my punches and defended them.

You are the superior striker in this situation and should be rewarded the win for in, even though I was the more aggressive one.

 

[Chalky White]

But if you’re being rewarded for defending, then your opponent is getting punished for dictating the style of fight, control time, etc. It doesn’t really make any sense.

As Husky said, defense is it’s own reward.

 

[Regal Boy]

- Islam beat Volk on feet did more damage before takedown
-Volk landed few pinch lighting arm strikers lmao
-Volk was getting controlled for 3 minutes
-control matters when fighters don't do much but Islam beat Volk on feet
Islam clearly won 4th round

Volk won rounds 2, 3, and 5 and also outstruck Islam and outwrestled him.

Anyone who thinks Islam won on the feet is an idiot.

 

[Regal Boy]

But if you’re being rewarded for defending, then your opponent is getting punished for dictating the style of fight, control time, etc. It doesn’t really make any sense.

No, they are being punished for FAILING to dictate the pace.

If I am TRYING to dictate the fight but you are countering every one of my attacks, YOU are the one winning.

This should be trivially obvious for everyone

 

[Apect15]

Volk won rounds 2, 3, and 5 and also outstruck Islam and outwrestled him.

Anyone who thinks Islam won on the feet is an idiot.

2nd is clearly Islam 3rd Islam won arguably too he cut volk with that elbow didn’t he?

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

The meltdown continues

I watched the fight 3 times now
Islam lost and got exposed, and won via robbery.

Yes, offensive wrestling is harder, but that doesn't mean anything in terms of actual martial effectiveness.
If you try to beat me in a fight and I defend, you did not beat me. You should not be rewarded for trying. Meanwhile, I did try to defend against you, and I did do so. I should be rewarded for successfully doing what I tried to do.

In MMA, wrestling defense should be scored equally with offense, if not moreso.

Volk reversed every position except for 2

It is, takedowns are worth 2, stuffing is 1, reversing is 2

Literally everything that I am saying is true you fucking idiot.
Volk won rounds 2, 3, and 5 under the ruleset, AND this ruleshit is bullshit.
Also, Islam grabbed Volks gloves and even tried to cheat.
Also, at the end of the fight, Islam was concussed and Volk wasn't even hurt
Volk outstruck him and defended every wrestling attempt other than 2

Every single one of these statements are facts.

You have nothing of value to say because everything I am saying are facts and you're angry about it.

This fight was a robbery, everyone sees it, and Islam's belt is not worth anything in anyone's eyes now.

Islam clearly won the fourth round, and the first round.
The other three volk won. You are genuinely delusional if you think otherwise.

Why wouldn't fans of this sport be angry when a bullshit decision is made?
Volk won rounds 2, 3, and 5. He won the fight, and he outstruck and outwrestled Islam.

Volk won the second, third, and fifth rounds

I have watched the fight 3 times, Volk won rounds 2, 3, and 5, and also outstruck and outwrestled Islam.

I had it 2, 3, 5 Volk with the fifth being 10-8
It was a clear Volk victory and a robbery

Volk won the fight and was robbed and everyone knows it, there is a fake champion at 155. Volk won rounds 2, 3, and 5

How did Islam win when volk had more sig strikes, did more damage, outwrestled Islam, and almost knocked him out twice while he himself was never in danger of being knocked out?

You have no real claim against this because Volk was robbed.

Yea, that's the whole fucking problem and why I made this thread.

Islam unfairly won a fight that he did not actually win. That's what a "robbery" is. Volk won more rounds and displayed superior martial arts skill than Islam, but was robbed of his rightful victory.

Volk won rounds 2, 3, and 5. He won the fight

I've rewatched it 3 times.
Volk landed more sig strikes, did more damage, knocked Islam down more times, and defended all but 2 wrestling attempts. He outstruck and outwrestled Islam.
Islam won the first and fourth, Volk won 2, 3, and 5

Stuffing is worth a point.
In MMA, stuffing a takedown should be worth twice as much as successfully taking down your opponent. So If I try to take you down 5 times and only get 1, I would have 1 point and you should have 8

If not twice the points, then it should be worth a successful takedown.
Fighters should not be incentivized to spam and fail shots. If you try to take someone down 5 times and only get 1, he should be winning on the points.

Seek help

 

[nostradumbass]

Wrestling and striking are not the same thing and do not be scored the same way. We are perfectly capable of rewarding offensive striking more than defensive striking, and defensive wrestling more than offensive wrestling.

There does not need to be an equal relation here.

Clearly not.

They already have a sport where grappling doesn't count for anything. It's called power slap, you should check it out.

 

[gracie_barra_samurai]

Stepping away from your opponent should also score points.

 

[Krimzon]

why not, they already score like this in boxing. Mayweather has won many a round via defense. Getting out of a submission should be a point for the subbee, not the sub attempter.

 

[burningspear]

yeah man ive always said it

 

[DestinedAussie]

Lay and pray, wall and stall, or just "control" on the ground that does not have any damage or submissions should not reward the aggressor. That a fighter can literally just lay on top of an opponent or push him up against the cage and win, despite not doing any damage and being out wrestled by the defender, is a blight on this sport and needs to end. It ruins a huge amount of fights and makes the sport more boring than it actually is, and most importantly, it is not indicative of actual martial ability, as in a "real" fight, defensive wrestling is just as important as offensive wrestling. But the scoring system does not reflect this.

Defending submissions, takedowns, or out wrestling a wrestler and stopping him from holding you down, are themselves techniques that should be rewarded. If I try to take you down 5 times and only succeed once, those failed attempts should not just be ignored like a missed strike is. You as the defender who stuffed the takedown have used your superior wrestling ability to defend my attacks, and you should be rewarded for this, and the score would be 1 to 4 in your favor.

If I take you down and "control" you on the ground for 2 or 3 minutes, but I am unable to turn this into any damage and can't make any submission attempts because you are successfully defending against me the whole time, and you shrimp get out and stand up, you as the defender should be rewarded for outwrestling me over that entire period of time. I wanted to beat you up on the ground, but you beat me and stopped me from doing so with your superior skill. Your wrestling beat mine, and you should be rewarded on the points for this. I should NOT be rewarded for "control on the ground" when in objective reality, you outwrestled me, you defended all my attempts at hurting you, and you used your superior wrestling ability to escape. I failed while you succeeded. The score should reflect this reality.

Submissions are the coolest part of this sport, wrestling and grappling are really exciting to watch and very effective in a fight, but this shit is neither exciting to watch nor is it actually a good way to actually fight. It's an artificial strategy born from a stupid scoring system, it should be ended. This one scoring system change would basically fix everything wrong with this sport, and it would do it without sacrificing anything that the fighters are allowed to do.

You can't score defensive wrestling unless you going to score every other type of defence in MMA which is kind of silly. With the scoring you are suggesting you wouldn't even need to do damage to try and win a fight. Just evade.

Honestly I think the scoring has moved away from lay and pray being as effective as it used to me. I know it was frustrating to watch to Islam and volk "stuck". But part of the reason Islam couldn't do more was because if he did Volk escapes.

We need to put more on Volk's inability to get up rather than blaming Islam for trying to make the most of his advantage. Wrestling is part of MMA and if nothing is happening then it up to the ref to stand it up. Don't try solve it by rewarding defence.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Defending submissions, takedowns, or out wrestling a wrestler and stopping him from holding you down, are themselves techniques that should be rewarded.

Defending submissions should be rewarded? No. A close submission should 100% score to the attacker.

Otherwise, why not score points for guys who display a great chin by not getting knocked out by a big punch?

 

[forRealHuh]

Getting dominated, but not finished should count more than dominating and punching, so unless a figher is able to finish he should be getting an automatic loss.

 

[Regal Boy]

Clearly not.

They already have a sport where grappling doesn't count for anything. It's called power slap, you should check it out.

Except I am not saying that grappling isn't worth anything. I am saying only effective grappling should be worth anything. If I try to take you down 10 times and you defend 9 times, HOW THE FUCK would you consider me a better wrestler than you just because I am being more aggressive? I am not, you are superior and have defeated my wrestling 90% of the time with your superior skill, but under the current rules, I would win from that one takedown. That's not right.

If a fighter sinks in a rear naked choke or a submission they win the fight. How is that "grappling not counting for anything"?