Ngannou's grappling vs Whittaker's grappling

[heohanwuoc]

So Ngannou and Whittaker both fought against the best striker in their division (Gane, Israel) with the main game plan to victory is wrestling.
People criticized Ngannou's grappling in the Gane fight even though he could take Gane down at will multipe times and keep him there.
Meanwhile Whittaker couldn't keep Israel down, let him stand up multipe times and even wall n stall in the last round but no one shitting on his grappling's skill.
What is the difference, why Ngannou got shitting on but not Whittaker? Not to mention Gane had 100% takedown defense before he fought Ngannou and Israel has been taken down multipe times before.

 

[BigTruck]

Why he got shitted on

 

[SmoothPies]

Adesanya's wrestling > Gane's wrestling

 

[heohanwuoc]

Adesanya's wrestling > Gane's wrestling

how do you know? Not to mention Israel got taken down too, basically if Whittaker has the ability to keep him down like Ngannou against Gane he would got the W.

 

[BFoe]

Nobody had really tested Gane’s TDD before though. Ngannou gets praise from me for the TDs, but not for the ground exchanges after. Both Ngannou and Gane are total noobs on the ground and it showed. They looked lost at times. What we saw from Whittaker and Izzy was much higher level than that.

 

[Royce's Gi]

how do you know? Not to mention Israel got taken down too, basically if Whittaker has the ability to keep him down like Ngannou against Gane he would got the W.

He used his senses one would assume.

 

[PPVpoints]

Ngannou and Gane are pretty much the same size, with Ngannou having the longer reach. Izzy is much taller than Whittaker and has the longer reach. I know its hard for you to understand, but those differences make a difference.

 

[heohanwuoc]

Nobody had really tested Gane’s TDD before though. Ngannou gets praise from me for the TDs, but not for the ground exchanges after. Both Ngannou and Gane are total noobs on the round and it showed. They looked lost at times. What wel saw from Whittaker and Izzy was much higher level than that.

There are no proof that Gane has worse TDD or ground game than Israel. If Whittaker has the ability to keep Israel down it would looked as "noob" as the Ngannou vs Gane fight. Israel just stand up at will whenever Whittaker took him down, there are nothing "high level" about that.

 

[brownsmith76]

Ngannou was allowed to have a 10-pound weight advantage over Ciryl also.

 

[Goober stoober]

im not sure how prepared gane was for grappling. did they expect that strategy from the slugger? id bet the answer is they trained it minimally and focused more on point fighting from the outside.

izzy knew/knows that every guy coming for him will try to grapplefuck him and im sure he's working on that aspect constantly.

id say ngannou does have better grappling than whittaker, by a significant margin but some of that is just a size thing lol.

 

[heohanwuoc]

Ngannou was allowed to have a 10-pound weight advantage over Ciryl also.

Doesn't matter thought, they fought in the same division, Gane has his reason for not gaining weight. Just like how Israel doesn't bulk up when he faced Jan, it is their choice and tactic, gaining weight cause them to be slower, heavier, worse cardio... and it's not mean they will not get taken down if they gained more weight.

 

[TheScorpionDude]

So Ngannou and Whittaker both fought against the best striker in their division (Gane, Israel) with the main game plan to victory is wrestling.
People criticized Ngannou's grappling in the Gane fight even though he could take Gane down at will multipe times and keep him there.
Meanwhile Whittaker couldn't keep Israel down, let him stand up multipe times and even wall n stall in the last round but no one shitting on his grappling's skill.
What is the difference, why Ngannou got shitting on but not Whittaker? Not to mention Gane had 100% takedown defense before he fought Ngannou and Israel has been taken down multipe times before.

Whittaker doesn't have soul shattering punching power. That's why.

But I agree, he should've wanted to win way more than he did.

 

[BFoe]

There are no proof that Gane has worse TDD or ground game than Israel. If Whittaker has the ability to keep Israel down it would looked as "noob" as the Ngannou vs Gane fight. Israel just stand up at will whenever Whittaker took him down, there are nothing "high level" about that.

Izzy “just stood up at will”? Dude, Izzy is a purple belt in BJJ under Andre Galvao. Whittaker is a black belt. They would never have looked as noob as Gane and Ngannou, I’m sorry. Gane is a white belt and Ngannou is a blue belt, and it showed in the longer ground sequences. Simple as that.

 

[spinup]

Adesanya's wrestling > Gane's wrestling

Not as simple as that.
Adesanya had a big height and reach advantage and was evenly matched in weight and strength.
Gane had no size advantage, a 15lbs deficit, and a clear strength disadvantage.

 

[Kratos94]

Gane is an awful wrestler; despite Australia not having a really good wrestling team, Whittaker was still able to make it, and learn a lot from it.

Whittaker > Gane in every sense, and Adesanya > Ngannou too

 

[SmoothPies]

how do you know? Not to mention Israel got taken down too, basically if Whittaker has the ability to keep him down like Ngannou against Gane he would got the W.

I guess I don't know for sure - my post wasn't really based on anything but feeling in hindsight.

What came to my mind, was when Gane went for the Kimaru a little bit too much instead of working on a sprawl. So hard to hit that on a guy as big as Ngannou plus outweighs you by 10+ pounds.

Adesanya isn't a great wrestler, but seems to at least have better decision making in grappling situations (knows the goal is to get back to his feet). Granted - he got schooled by Jan who outweighed him as Ngannou outweighed Gane, so you can make that comparison.

Not as simple as that.
Adesanya had a big height and reach advantage and was evenly matched in weight and strength.
Gane had no size advantage, a 15lbs deficit, and a clear strength disadvantage.

You're right - forgot about the size difference.

 

[spinup]

What came to my mind, was when Gane went for the Kimaru a little bit too much instead of working on a sprawl. So hard to hit that on a guy as big as Ngannou plus outweighs you by 10+ pounds.

Adesanya isn't a great wrestler, but seems to at least have better decision making in grappling situations (knows the goal is to get back to his feet). Granted - he got schooled by Jan who outweighed him as Ngannou outweighed Gane, so you can make that comparison.

Gane's grappling is really due to the philosophy of his gym. They put a lot of emphasis on using agressive submissions (both offensively and defensively) rather than working on position.

Ngannou himself was doing the exact same things before his move to Xtreme Couture. That's exactly how he locked the kimura on Hamilton, and he also briefly tried a heel hook when he lost to Stipe.