Genetics vs Hard Work...

[Ogata]

Rogan was talking about Jon Jones and that he could party, do coke a day before a fight and then proceed to kick the living shit out of his opponents. Meanwhile on the opposite end of the spectrum was Dave who was famous for training like a mad man, worked super hard and really made sure to do everything correctly and becomes the first ever Middleweight champion but loses it real quick and cant regain top form.

Makes me wonder how much of fighting is genetics and how much of it is hard work and talent. I mean how does this whole thing work? I know guys who have been in an MMA gym since 2003 and 17 years later, they are average kickboxers and ok grapplers as well as having an average record.

Yet you francis ngannou who enters MMA and becomes instantly famous. How does this work? How come someone can train for almost two decades and still be stuck at a local level and someone else just ends up in the UFC in a year or two?

 

[dc007]

This will turn into a racist thread.

 

[Normot]

Lotta things other than genetics and hard work involved. How many baby mamas you got before 25? Who's your coach? Hard work don't work if it's dumb work! Injuries. Etc. Lotta shit matter when you want to be a world champion...

 

[LetThemBleed]

Tbf Jones was also juiced to the gills so to say it's exclusively a case of genetics seems a bit of a stretch.

 

[Eiffel-sixtyFight]

 

[Ogata]

This will turn into a racist thread.

Why, I gave fair examples that reflect the nature of genetics. Also, Naseem Hamed and Wilder had crazy genetics and they look completely different.

 

[dc007]

Why, I gave fair examples that reflect the nature of genetics. Also, Naseem Hamed and Wilder had crazy genetics and they look completely different.

Because the "genetics vs hard work" thing is an old racist trope in sports.

 

[Londonjitsu]

Genetics plays a lot in things.
From being a jockey to an Olympic sprinter.
Only delusional people think otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 571517]

Conor's left hand and Colby's third lung is genetic gift.

Khabib probably is result of both hard work (probably has the first memory on the mat), genetic and environment (Khabib's village has more gold medalists in various sport than any other village in the world).

 

[Deleted member 571517]

Jon Jones and Izzy has a huge reach advantage over other fighters in their division - and they use that advantage very well. (Genetic)

 

[Apollo33]

People often underestimate the brain part of any sport.

There are NBA players with supreme athletic ability, and great work ethic that doesn't make it far in the league because they don't understand the game.

I think on top of being athletically gifted, Jon Jones has great fight sense. That's something you can't really teach. You can teach a fighter to throw a punch, or a kick, or a combo. You can get them to drill 1000000 times, but some just can't put it together correctly no matter what.

It's not just in sports either, there's kids that study all night but doesn't get great grades, and there are kids that just gets it in a very short time.

 

[TR1]

Jones isn't all genetics though lol- he is a through and through roider.

 

[Ogata]

Because the "genetics vs hard work" thing is an old racist trope in sports.

COMMON MAN!!!

Look, Naseem Hamed was from Yemen and had FREAK genetics in respect to power, speed and quickness. As was the case with Dolph who was a real life Kyokushin guy. Two guys who are not African in origin. Not to mention Brock Lesnar who was a clear genetic freak.

 

[crodor3]

in essence, both. gsp and bones had to train like mad men but genetics play a huge roll in the ability to do so (and have your body respond accordingly)

 

[Ogata]

People often underestimate the brain part of any sport.

There are NBA players with supreme athletic ability, and great work ethic that doesn't make it far in the league because they don't understand the game.

I think on top of being athletically gifted, Jon Jones has great fight sense. That's something you can't really teach. You can teach a fighter to throw a punch, or a kick, or a combo. You can get them to drill 1000000 times, but some just can't put it together correctly no matter what.

It's not just in sports either, there's kids that study all night but doesn't get great grades, and there are kids that just gets it in a very short time.

This is actually a very good point!

Great fighters had to think about the ins and outs of their style. Ricardo Lopez was a legendary undefeated boxing champion and he was very much conscious about his technique, the importance of defense, offense and having proper fundamentals from the Mexican and European style boxing. He understood the science, the history and logic of all the move sets that he was putting together and working on as oppose to just hitting the bag passively.

But still, a repetition is still important and just knowing and being wise is not enough.

 

[crodor3]

Jones isn't all genetics though lol- he is a through and through roider.

nah both. you don't have a family of nfl and goat mma guys by not being genetically better than most everyone else

 

[SHAZAM]

Anyone that has competed in anything knows that it's a combination of both. Obviously you won't be HW champ with hard work if you're 5'2". That's genetic. Obviously there are way more talented people out there that prefer to not work so hard and enjoy life. Could we say hard worker mindset is also genetic? Both play a role. And don't underestimate Jones's work ethic because he parties. For partying may actually contribute to his mental edge. I'm not Jones level but I beat some guys at things they take extremely serious because I'm a bit more playful and don't really get nervous. I have a mental edge but I got other stuff going on while all they do is that one thing. I fucking post on sherdog for one.

 

[Domitian]

Tbf Jones was also juiced to the gills so to say it's exclusively a case of genetics seems a bit of a stretch.

We know Jon has good genetics because of both his brother's success in the NFL.

 

[JoshTehV]

You can easily refute this argument using education for example, even if you may have a high iq you still have to put in a tremendous amount of work to get a PhD for instance. No god given ability in the world is going to write a several hundred page dissertation for you and then defend it!

Then you can take this same argument and apply it to sports, where we see McGregor being a product of mostly genetics (natural ability for timing and range) and some hardwork . We can look at Dustin Porier and Tony Ferguson who are great examples of how far hard work can get you in a sports where genetics can make all the difference (e.g. Romero). Still, there are no genetic freaks at this point in the sport that are dominating consistently at a championship level besides Jon Jones in terms of fight iq and frame.

 

[LetThemBleed]

We know Jon has good genetics because of both his brother's success in the NFL.

What we don't know however is where genetics end and juicing to the gills begins. Naturally he might be half the fighter he currently is for all we know.