25 years evolution - 2020 Anderson Silva vs 1995 Marco Ruas UFC 7 champion 1995

[pankrat]

1995 - Brazilian OG Marco "The King of the Streets" Ruas - UFC7 champion
vs
2020 - Anderson "Spider" Silva - #15 UFC MW

 

[MrCoffee]

Probably carry on like every other ordinary person does.

 

[gono btw]

Hard to assess, since he was out of his physical prime when he reached the international stage.

His physical prime was in the 1980s, and against Pinduka in 1984 he was [reportedly] aprox. 175lbs.

In the 1990s, he started to bulk up, became a LHW, but this drastic change weakened his knees.
That´s why he had to take pain killers (see the Otsuka fight) or give up durin´fights (see vs Maurice).

Consequently, this context has to be considered when assessin´his career & skill set.

 

[IloveTHIS]

Marco loses

 

[pankrat]

Hard to assess, since he was out of his physical prime when he reached the international stage.

His physical prime was in the 1980s, and against Pinduka in 1984 he was [reportedly] aprox. 175lbs.

In the 1990s, he started to bulk up, became a LHW, but this drastic change weakened his knees.
That´s why he had to take pain killers (see the Otsuka fight) or give up durin´fights (see vs Maurice).

Consequently, this context has to be considered when assessin´his career & skill set.

Does that context you r talking about asses that Ruas widely evolved his skills in grappling, boxing and kicking since he fought Pinduka in '84? Ruas himself has told in interviews.

Its normal for an adult, much more an athlete, to gain weight from your early 20s to 30s. Ruas in '95 was experenced and in very good shape as shown in UFC7 fighting for more than half an hour that night, The other reading is how he needed such amount of time to take out the pretty flawed fighters he faced in that tournament.

Regarding weight, would you give him more of a chance facing Paulo Costa than the LJWs in the OP?

Anderson Silva at 40 years old post broken leg vs Ruas at 34 when he got in the international scene. Do you favour Ruas? Who was more out of his physical prime you say?

 

[gono btw]

Does that context you r talking about asses that Ruas widely evolved his skills in grappling, boxing and kicking since he fought Pinduka in '84? Ruas himself has told in interviews.

Its normal for an adult to gain weight from your early 20s to 30s. Ruas in '95 was experenced and in very good shape as shown in UFC7 fighting for more than half an hour that night, The other reading is how he needed such amount of time to take out the pretty flawed fighters he faced in that tournament.

Regarding weight, would you give him more of a chance facing Paulo Costa than the LJWs in the OP?

Anderson Silva at 40 years old post broken leg vs Ruas when he got in the international scene in his early 30s?Who was more out of his physical prime you say?

ah, since you´re talkin´about interviews, Huas´ own coach [Roberto Leitão] indeed confirmed that him bulkin´from WW to LHW between the 1980s & 90s was the very reason why his knees were weakened in the 1990s.

A prime is not about winnin´ or losin´. You can still be winnin´ and no longer be in your prime: this is called fight IQ & experience, mental warfare too (see the B-Hop case).

 

[pankrat]

ah, since you´re talkin´about interviews, Huas´ own coach [Roberto Leitão] indeed confirmed that him bulkin´from WW to LHW between the 1980s & 90s was the very reason why his knees were weakened in the 1990s.

A prime is not about winnin´ or losin´. You can still be winnin´ and no longer be in your prime: this is called fight IQ & experience, mental warfare too (see the B-Hop case).

Look at Anderson in 1998 and then look at him today. There is more than 20lbs difference.
You prefered not to face any of what I said. I will put it here a second time for you to face it:

- Do you acknowledge Ruas kept improving his skills between 1980' & 90s, or you think he was stagnant and didnt learn anymore?

- Is Anderson Silva at 40+ years old post broken broken leg closer to his prime than Ruas at 34?

- Would you give Ruas more of a chance facing Paulo Costa than the LHWs in the OP?

 

[gono btw]

Look at Anderson in 1998 and then look at him today. There is more than 20lbs difference.
You prefered not to face any of what I said. I will put it here a second time for you to face it:

- Do you acknowledge Ruas kept improving his skills between 1980' & 90s, or you think he was stagnant and didnt learn anymore?

- Is Anderson Silva at 40+ years old post broken broken leg closer to his prime than Ruas at 34?

- Would you give Ruas more of a chance facing Paulo Costa than the LHWs in the OP?

Helax, mate... it´s not about facin´or duckin´your narrative...
Fools call it da Gono 'Side-Step', but... in reality, it´s about questionin´the question.
You cant drop a fantasy match-up jus´like that, without diggin´the context.

Back then, in the 1980s-90s, most elite athletes were out of their physical prime by the time they reached 34 yrs old.
Marco was 24 yrs in 1984 when he faced Pinduka...

You cant compare Huas´knees to Silva´s leg. Different periods.
For instance, when Goes fought against Frank in Pancrase, he refused to tap, injured his leg & had to pay a 8,000 $ bill (his purse was 800 $...). He literally had to beg Pancrase to help him.
Pelé, when he broke his leg, had to ask for help too...
Silva has had a complete structure to take care of him & his health.

Did Huas improve his skill set between the Pinduka fight & the 1990s? Obviously... He was even kindah rejected by the Luta Livre crew when he started trainin´BJJ in the 1980s...

Spoiler: Huas - Cross-Trainin´

> Brazilian Vale Tudo scene:

King of The Streets:

View attachment 576187

Marco Huas interview right before UFC 7 in Black Belt magazine (1995)

BB: When did you start in the Martial Arts?

MR: 13. At first I practiced Judo.

BB: Judo?

MR: Yes, because I was a coward. My father took me to a Judo academy. I soon got to love the fighting arts and have done various things.

BB: What other Martial Arts did you try?

MR: From 16, Tae Kwon Do and Capoeira. From 18, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, and Luta Livre.

BB: Most Vale Tudo fighters know Jiu-Jitsu, but you know many other Martial Arts as well.

MR: Well, the Judo academy was managed by my father. It had classes of Capoeira, Tae Kwon Do, and so on. So I learned alot of Martial Arts. From my late teen years on, I have trained almost everyday in the Martial Arts.

BB: How successful have you been in your matches?

MR: I'm a little bit embarrased, because there have been so many that I can't remember them all.
In Muay Thai, I fought 16 bouts, won them all, and was Heavyweight champion in Brazil. In Capoeira I won the Heavyweight championship. In Boxing I won 8 out of 8 bouts, and was once Middleweight champion in Rio. I won the Wrestling championships in Brazil 5 or 6 times.

BB: Is it your dream to be a champion in evry kind of Martial Art?

MR: No, I just love various fighting arts. I do have another reason that I do so many kinds of Martial Arts. When I continue to win nobody wants to challenge me anymore! If I want to keep fighting I have to turn to a new Martial Art.

Spoiler: Full Interview

Marco Huas interview right before UFC 7 in Black Belt magazine (1995)

BB: When were you born?

MR: January 27, 1961. In Rio.

Spoiler

View attachment 576189

BB: When did you start in the Martial Arts?

MR: 13. At first I practiced Judo.

BB: Judo?

MR: Yes, because I was a coward. My father took me to a Judo academy. I soon got to love the fighting arts and have done various things.

BB: What other Martial Arts did you try?

MR: From 16, Tae Kwon Do and Capoeira. From 18, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, and Luta Livre.

BB: Most Vale Tudo fighters know Jiu-Jitsu, but you know many other Martial Arts as well.

MR: Well, the Judo academy was managed by my father. It had classes of Capoeira, Tae Kwon Do, and so on. So I learned alot of Martial Arts. From my late teen years on, I have trained almost everyday in the Martial Arts.

BB: How successful have you been in your matches?

MR: I'm a little bit embarrased, because there have been so many that I can't remember them all. In Muay Thai, I fought 16 bouts, won them all, and was Heavyweight champion in Brazil. In Capoeira I won the Heavyweight championship. In Boxing I won 8 out of 8 bouts, and was once Middleweight champion in Rio. I won the Wrestling championships in Brazil 5 or 6 times.

BB: Is it your dream to be a champion in evry kind of Martial Art?

MR: No, I just love various fighting arts. I do have another reason that I do so many kinds of Martial Arts. When I continue to win nobody wants to challenge me anymore! If I want to keep fighting I have to turn to a new Martial Art.

BB: Wow.

MR: I do not want to participate in the Olympics. Actually I want to earn money by doing Vale Tudo matches, or kickboxing in Brazil. Unfortunately there few kickboxing events and I cannot take part in many Vale Tudo matches. That has been a problem.

BB: Why?

MR: Just 12 years ago, I competed in A Vale Tudo match with Pin Dukan, who was said to be the top student in the Carlson Gracie Dojo. I won. So after that bout, nobody wanted to fight with me.

BB: I have heard this before.

MR: So I then participated in Luta Livre events. Luta Livre is like free-style wrestling. It differs from Jiu-Jitsu, because you fight and train without a gi. The grappling technique is like Jiu-Jitsu, but since there is no gi, the skill is a little closer to wrestling. Another difference is that punching and kicking are trained in Luta Livre.

BB: Luta Livre has been called an enemy to Jiu-Jitsu.

MR: People who do these two Martial Arts completely hate each other. I do not care. I only want to be tougher. So I trained in Jiu-Jitsu for 3 years as well as Luta Livre. But that is a big problem in Brazil.

BB: Jiu-Jitsu fighters often say, "I would die for Jiu-Jitsu!". Don't you feel the same way?

MR: No. Essentially, inside of Jiu-Jitsu, Luta Livre, or anything, it must be decided whi is the best.

BB: You are the first Brazillian I have ever met to say such things.

MR: That's why it's so hard to find someone to fight!

BB: But you won in UFC 7.

MR: UFC is one step for me. For about 10 years no one would fight with me. Even the Gracie's would not fight me. So the UFC is the next step into the world of fighting.

BB: Who do you think is the toughest fighter in the UFC?

MR: I have got the tapes of UFC's 1-6. My trainer, Layton and I, have analyzed every fighters technique. Honestly, the level of fighters in UFC's 1-3 is very low. It wasn't until UFC 4 that the level was at last like Vale Tudo. The best? I think it's Shamrock.

BB: Shamrock? Not Royce?

MR: I do not think much of UFC 1-3. Though Royce is an excellent Jiu-Jitsu fighter, I think it would be hard for him to continue to win. But Shamrock can. I myself think that the body must be tough for a fighter to be tough. Shamrock has a tough body. Layton (Ruas' manager): Marco is a wonderfully gentle person. But look at his body. He can bench press 180kg easily. This is no ordinary Jiu-Jitsu fighter you know.

BB: That's right. Marco has a different kind of body from Rickson. He is flexible but stiff, lika a rubber ball, and he's very muscular.

Layton: When black people were forced to go to South America as slaves, 80% of them died from over work and poor living conditions. The 20% who lived must have been tough. The offspring of such men, must have it in their genes to excel. That is Marco's case. His body has superior genes. He trains all day.

BB: I see. You mean Marco naturally has a tough body?

Layton: And Marco knows all the Data on the UFC fighters. We have analyzed Shamrock's, Severn's, and everyone else's tactics. And he has been training with this analysis in mind. Look at this notebook. Here is the plotting of Marco's heart rate when he is using certain tactics. We are researching scientifically what Marco can be.

BB: That is great.

Layton: He knows the weakness of every UFC fighter. He will definately win at UFC 7.

BB: Wow. You have created a monster. But we're curious. Who's better, Marco or Rickson?

MR: I respect Rickson, but he's not perfect. Despite what some say.

Layton: It is my personal opinion that Marco and Rickson have equal grappling skills, with Rickson having perhaps an edge. But standing up, Marco is much better. Marco would have a good chance of winning.

BB: You mean that Marco plans to escape from grappling, and beat him with his standing skills?

MR: If we are even in grappling, than we must fight standing. When you are grappling there is a chance to stand up, if you refuse to be caught in a submission or chikehold. The losers to the Gracie's have so far been taken down. They could not stand up again. That is the problem. The Gracie's adhere to no time limits as they do not want their opponents to stand up again.

BB: I see. Thank you very much Marco.

Overall, Huas fought in a specific Fight Configuration, and this is not considered in your OP.

 

[pankrat]

Helax, mate... it´s not about facin´or duckin´your narrative...
Fools call it da Gono 'Side-Step', but... in reality, it´s about questionin´the question.
You cant drop a fantasy match-up jus´like that, without diggin´the context.

Back then, in the 1980s-90s, most elite athletes were out of their physical prime by the time they reached 34 yrs old.
Marco was 24 yrs in 1984 when he faced Pinduka...

You cant compare Huas´knees to Silva´s leg. Different periods.
For instance, when Goes fought against Frank in Pancrase, he refused to tap, injured his leg & had to pay a 8,000 $ bill (his purse was 800 $...). He literally had to beg Pancrase to help him.
Pelé, when he broke his leg, had to ask for help too...
Silva has had a complete structure to take care of him & his health.

Did Huas improve his skill set between the Pinduka fight & the 1990s? Obviously... He was even kindah rejected by the Luta Livre crew when he started trainin´BJJ in the 1980s...



Overall, Huas fought in a specific Fight Configuration, and this is not considered in your OP.

Respect, its a different take on the mater, but other than ellaborate a narrative about how bad Ruas knees were for bulking up, how much the Fight Configuration in UFC has changed over the years, or how much physically weak were the 30 years old athletes from back in the day, you honesty dont asses the point, friend.

The Marco Ruas we saw in 1995 was in great shape, and not far from the fighter he got to be at any point in his life.
Can you wonder if that guy would have answer for what the top Brazilians of his size today, 25 years later bring to the cage

 

[Reach4theSky]

If the fight is in the streets I would favour Ruas..

 

[6 Pack Lapadat]

Ruas fought in a different era, and taking him from that era and giving him no modern training would set him up for a loss. However, taking Ruas and having him work with a modern MMA team and seeing what he can do...hmmm.

It's hard to say as we are really starting to expand on the 'what ifs' in this fantasy match up.

The talent pool was much smaller when Ruas fought. It was not as hard to reach the top.

 

[gono btw]

Respect, its a different take on the mater, but other than ellaborate a narrative about how bad Ruas knees were for bulking up, how much the Fight Configuration in UFC has changed over the years, or how much physically weak were the 30 years old athletes from back in the day, you honesty dont asses the point, friend.

The Marco Ruas we saw in 1995 was in great shape, and not far from the fighter he got to be at any point in his life.
Can you wonder if that guy would have answer for what the top Brazilians of his size today, 25 years later bring to the cage

ah, Huas mostly fought in Vale Tudo, UFC, Pride, WVC.

You´ve gottah choose a Fight Configuration, here... and by extension, a Scorin´System.
What does that mean? Well, the Marco Huas who, for instance, went for a heel hook in early UFC would probably avoid this move in current UFC, but not in a Pride (or ONE) environment...

 

[pankrat]

ah, Huas mostly fought in Vale Tudo, UFC, Pride, WVC.

You´ve gottah choose a Fight Configuration, here... and by extension, a Scorin´System.
What does that mean? Well, the Marco Huas who, for instance, went for a heel hook in early UFC would probably avoid this move in current UFC, but not in a Pride (or ONE) environment...

What moves you think he could apply to beat current top 200lbers, in any major org in the world today?

 

[gono btw]

What moves you think he could apply to beat current top 200lbers, in any major org in the world today?

ah 1st of all, are they really the same size, on Fight Night? Huas was 205 lbs in UFC & Pride...
There´s a decent possibility that he would be a MW today...

Anyway, on the ground, for instance, one of his go-to-moves, as a good Luta Livre dude, was the heel hook, and he would definitely go for it, but probably not in UFC, only in Rizin or One.
I have no doubt he would test Marreta´s or Walker´s ankle... Glover, probably not, since he´s more well-rounded, especially on the ground.

Overall, dependin´on the Fight Configuration & Scorin´System, Huas would have to reshape his skill set... jus´like modern MMA fighters would have to reshape theirs if they were to compete in ol´school Fight Configuration...

 

[pankrat]

ah 1st of all, are they really the same size, on Fight Night? Huas was 205 lbs in UFC & Pride...
There´s a decent possibility that he would be a MW today...

I suggested Paulo Costa and even 40 years old Anderson.

Anyway, on the ground, for instance, one of his go-to-moves, as a good Luta Livre dude, was the heel hook, and he would definitely go for it, but probably not in UFC, only in Rizin or One.
I have no doubt he would test Marreta´s or Walker´s ankle... Glover, probably not, since he´s more well-rounded, especially on the ground.

Overall, dependin´on the Fight Configuration & Scorin´System, Huas would have to reshape his skill set... jus´like modern MMA fighters would have to reshape theirs if they were to compete in ol´school Fight Configuration...

If you think Ruas ground techniques we saw in UFC 7 - or any other recorded fight of his - are likely to work on any of the top Brazilian fighters today of his size, whatever the weightclass, under whatever Fight Configuration & Scorin´System, I personally think you are pretty dellusional.

I dont think Ruas had enough skill to outgrapple these guys in any form, so it would come to an stand up fight in most cases. While I think he was cautious, tough and crafty enough to hang in the feet I dont think he would pose much of a threat neither. I think he was vulnerable to the wrestling skill of someone as Glover too, who has come a long way since his early 2000s fights.

 

[gono btw]

I suggested Paulo Costa and even 40 years old Anderson.



If you think Ruas ground techniques we saw in UFC 7 - or any other recorded fight of his - are likely to work on any of the top Brazilian fighters today of his size, whatever the weightclass, under whatever Fight Configuration & Scorin´System, I personally think you are pretty dellusional.

I dont think Ruas had enough skill to outgrapple these guys in any form, so it would come to an stand up fight in most cases. While I think he was cautious, tough and crafty enough to hang in the feet I dont think he would pose much of a threat neither. I think he was vulnerable to the wrestling skill of someone as Glover too, who has come a long way since his early 2000s fights.

ah, your assessment doesnt project his skill set, tho... This is why your OP is rather 'reductive'.

Meanwhile, Gono didnt say Huas would catch´em with this specific move, for instance. He said he would definitely go for it, at least against Marreta & Walker.... and only in an Org. like Rizin or One.
That´s why a distinct Scorin´System is essential to consider here, & it´s definitely missin´in your OP.

On a side note, you have yet to show that these 2 guys have legit submission defence on the ground.
The UFC environment is more about TDD than workin´on subz.

It iz what it iz.

 

[vcmmafan]

What year is this?