Askren's career answered to a couple of big MMA questions

[AimedWithV]

1. How far can you go in MMA by putting (almost) all the eggs to a wrestling basket?
Answer: Only thus far. It's amazing to see in comparison, how frequently dominant elite MMA wrestlers use striking for more than one need in the fight. Askren is pretty much an edge case of maximum wrestling and minimum everything else - yes BJJ too despite his sub wins!
Wrestling is the best base for MMA - not the ultimate answer to it

2. What is the meaning of a winning/undefeated record in MMA?
Answer: no meaning. There were enough fighters developing greater streaks even than Askren - like Nazareno Malegarie who I think was the best one in this. This is too circumstancial and doesn't show what happens when you jump levels - not only from 2nd league to the UFC, but also from regionals to 2nd league.

3. Should you start your career in the UFC if you want to prosper from your MMA career?
Answer: Absolutely not. Aim to the 2nd league - Bellator-PFL-ONE-Rizin. Be as good as you can there, become champion - you'll build the name for yourself and salary which is bigger than being in the UFC for the same amount of fights 100%. Do not hesitate to negotiate and jump between biggest 5 orgs, UFC included. You'll get more money than entirely-UFC fighters that way, sometimes up to a ridiculous ratio.

4. Why does the UFC turn to be the stiffest test for a fighter?
Answer: because it has the best matchmaking from any other leagues. In 90% of the cases the matchups are between similar skilled and similar ranked fighters, and that's why it's usually VERY hard to predict who wins - sometimes that pretty much nonexistent in other leagues (well, besides PFL). While Askren in ONE could eventually find that some Luis Santos is harder opponent than other despite him being unranked and frequently-beaten, it's an exclusion - and in the UFC it's a rule.

 

[Lando]

Tldr

 

[Nate banged my mom]

TLDR

 

[AimedWithV]

TL;DR

Oh wait, that's my own thread...

 

[Ysgramor]

Tldr

TLDR

This is why twitter is a thing.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I actually surprised myself by reading it all.

 

[AimedWithV]

I actually surprised myself by reading it all.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

In terms of the undefeated records, I've always looked at someone's UFC record as a guide. I think if anyone can get to 10-0 or above in the UFC then that's incredible.

 

[Clear Winner]

Good read. The last point in particular highlights for me why I think GSP is the GOAT. Through almost all of his career (or at least when he hit the big time), he had to fight the best. Fedor had the luxury of a fair few gimme fights.

 

[AimedWithV]

In terms of the undefeated records, I've always looked at someone's UFC record as a guide. I think if anyone can get to 10-0 or above in the UFC then that's incredible.

Indeed and it usually shows something very very special in a fighter - not necessarily skill-wise, but athletic abilities, or game plans, of fight psychology.
Super speed and movement for HW from young JDS;
Amazing control and damage skills from Jones;
Insane precision and using fight psychology from Anderson;
Relentlessness and super cardio from GSP;
Insanely creative game plans from Ferguson;
Devastating defensive and offensive feeling of Aldo (and now Holloway)

 

[AimedWithV]

Good read. The last point in particular highlights for me why I think GSP is the GOAT. Through almost all of his career (or at least when he hit the big time), he had to fight the best. Fedor had the luxury of a fair few gimme fights.

In GSP I actually don't remember even ONE matchup where the opponent didn't deserve to fight him

 

[91 seconds]

Tldr..

It took me less than a minute lol

 

[Whoa Nelly]

good points, well thought out.
Would read again

 

[Hellowhosthat]

In GSP I actually don't remember even ONE matchup where the opponent didn't deserve to fight him

I think Dan Hardy is the most arguable, but still a decent fighter on a good win streak at the time.

 

[AimedWithV]

I think Dan Hardy is the most arguable, but still a decent fighter on a good win streak at the time.

That's why I worded it like I did.
Hardy was far from being competitive to GSP, but he DESERVED TO FIGHT HIM, because he has been a clear and lone #1 contender at that time (thanks to Kampmann being KTFO by newcomer Daley)

 

[ticho123]

Especially agree with the part about matchmaking. The UFC isn't considered the premier league just because it has the best fighters - in fact at times it's been arguable whether a particular weight class might have at times been stronger in some other org - but because they match their fighters in a (generally) rational way where the quality of opposition consistantly increases with increased number of wins. That's why going on a 10 fight win streak in the UFC is almost invariably a proof of greatness.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

TLDR elite folkstyle wrestling alone can make you undefeated champ of every org except ufc

 

[AimedWithV]

TLDR elite folkstyle wrestling alone can make you undefeated champ of every org except ufc

BS. Masvidal fought pretty much everywhere.
He did not become super skilled because of the UFC.

 

[Clear Winner]

BS. Masvidal fought pretty much everywhere.
He did not become super skilled because of the UFC.

I'd say the Masvidal V Askren fight was a bit unique because it was over so quickly. Who knows how Mas would have done if Askren got one TD or just didn't get KTFO in a few seconds.

 

[AimedWithV]

I'd say the Masvidal V Askren fight was a bit unique because it was over so quickly. Who knows how Mas would have done if Askren got one TD or just didn't get KTFO in a few seconds.

I don't think it was that unique, because it was a result of what Askren is as a fighter.
It's something that could've had happened sooner or later, and it has better chance to happen against an elite and smart MMA striker as Masvidal