Personal Analysis of MW/LHW transitions

[zxyss25]

Fighters names are bold and underlined for better reference

Santos & Smith are already huge LHWs, I cant believe they were able to put to MW. That's why they are having success at LHW, because that is their natural weight class
It shows cutting too much weight can really drain your performance
Similar to Whitaker and Pourier also moving up and having great success

Weidman is not a big LW, hes more of a tweener and will not have success at LHW, he should go back down to MW...He will never out wrestle bigger LHWs

Weidman is in a very similar situation as Rich Franklin...he may win some matchups at LHW, but wont be a contender

Same with Jacare, I predict Jacare loses to Jan...Jacare had no trouble making MW, I'm surprised he moved up, other than for a more favorable matchup as all the other MWs were booked
Similar to what Kevin Lee did for a one time WW fight against RDA

Undersized LHWs such as Belfort, Machida, and Mousasi had success at LHW because they were great strikers...they did not depend on their wrestling/grappling/clinch game as much as Weidman/Jacare would need to

Rockhold is a natural LHW, he just got caught against Jan
Rockhold needs to improve his striking defense, regardless of his weight
If he can improve his striking defense, and get more fights to the ground, he will be a contender at LWH, regardless of his deteriorating chin

Dan Henderson semed to have really good success at LHW and MW...but Dan is a special breed of fighter, with a granite chin, heavy hands and a great all around MMA talent

Wanderlei Silva was a smaller LHW, which is why he dropped to MW for the majority of his UFC career
But once again, where your as good a striker as Wand was...size advantage doesnt matter as much, so its better to not cut as much weight so you have better cardio...even if your undersized

Rashad Evans gets a DNQ...he was way too late in his career

Chael Sonnen was basically a bloated version of his MW former self...and got blasted by Jones, Rashad...and even Tito LOL

Yoel Romero and Costa would be very interesting to see, as both as huge MWs, but I think Costa is bigger

I feel Costa would have great success and see him moving up to LHW as he continues to grow, as he will probably have additiional power and better cardio at LHW

Israel I think would get dominated at LHW against contenders

He may have less success then Anderson Silva, as Silva was bigger
Izzy would be able to win favorable matchups, but never hold the belt and get dominated by bigger wrestlers like Jones, DC, Smith, even OSP, etc

 

[LikeItIs]

Well that was a bit all over the place.

 

[zxyss25]

Well that was a bit all over the place.

That was somewhat my point, I guess

It was more personal analysis...I'm not a professional

But did you agree with any of the opinions on specific fighters?

 

[GoshiShun17]

TS you are often saying something stupid but I agree with many of the points of your OP. But then the last part about Israel, you just got REALLY stupid

 

[zxyss25]

TS you are often saying something stupid but I agree with many of the points of your OP. But then the last part about Israel, you just got REALLY stupid

Thats fair...but which part is really stupid?

Do you really think Izzy would have the same success against bigger LHWs, when hes already a small MW who doesnt cut much weight?

Its not fair to call something stupid without giving a rebuttal...unless your Dana?

 

[theleerygoose]

Im pretty sure none of those fighters were ever "LW"s

 

[zxyss25]

Im pretty sure none of those fighters were ever "LW"s

Not Light weight

Light heavy weight

 

[X Factor]

I think jumping around weight classes depends on several factors including styles, matchups, if the fighters are up and coming or down in a slump. On a side note I do think guys like rockhold and weidman did a number on themselves cutting so much weight throughout their career but a little to late now to change that

 

[Herwald]

Bisping went like 14-1 at LHW. Ran into Rashad and finally found out what weight cutting was.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

That's not deep analysis at all. That's just dropping a few opinions on a multitude of fighters over the years.

Durability and style are the biggest components when transitioning. The mistake that Rockhold and Weidman both made is they took on big, seasoned, LHWs while competing for the first time up a weight class.

Outside of a handful of fighters who take strong style match ups when they are in their prime, generally, the trend of successful fighters moving up a class is that they take a few easier fights and get used to the weight before taking on young contenders/elite fighters in the division. There are always exceptions (Cormier, GSP, etc), but fighters like Gastelum, Masvidal, Whittaker, Smith, Santos, Porier, etc all had a series of well matched or favourable matchups that allowed them to get used to the new class.

 

[faustian]

Your success in moving up really comes down to your chin and, to a slightly lesser degree, the power in your hands. I think guys like Hendo, Fedor, and even Shogun all peaked at higher-than-natural weight classes because they could both hang with the heavier hitting and exploit their speed advantage vs naturally bigger opponents. Lack of punching power is most likely why Jones is terrified of HW

 

[zxyss25]

I think jumping around weight classes depends on several factors including styles, matchups, if the fighters are up and coming or down in a slump. On a side note I do think guys like rockhold and weidman did a number on themselves cutting so much weight throughout their career but a little to late now to change that

I may get criticized by this...

But I think Rockhold has the potential to be a contender at LHW...if he works on his striking defense

His striking defense will cause him to get KOed at any weight class...whether by LHWs like Jan...or MWs like Bisping, Vitor and Romero

I think that is his biggest challenge right now, not the past weight cuts or formerly draining himself

 

[Ideanudge]

Chris isn't too bad, but some fighters add muscle weight better than others. Rockhold added great mass, but he became too heavy and slow. His large arms can't be easily held up so he already average defense got worse. Plus Jan was really strong himself.

Seeing Santos and Smith run, there were still many old trash LHWs, it's just that higher ranked guy and more popular guys of MW, like Luke Weidman and soon Jacare, had to immediately fight top LHW guys rather build themselves up like RDA did to accustom to their weight.

 

[zxyss25]

That's not deep analysis at all. That's just dropping a few opinions on a multitude of fighters over the years.

Durability and style are the biggest components when transitioning. The mistake that Rockhold and Weidman both made is they took on big, seasoned, LHWs while competing for the first time up a weight class.

Outside of a handful of fighters who take strong style match ups when they are in their prime, generally, the trend of successful fighters moving up a class is that they take a few easier fights and get used to the weight before taking on young contenders/elite fighters in the division. There are always exceptions (Cormier, GSP, etc), but fighters like Gastelum, Masvidal, Whittaker, Smith, Santos, Porier, etc all had a series of well matched or favourable matchups that allowed them to get used to the new class.

Agree to disagree, my guy?

Gasteleum fought Belfort...legit striker and Kennedy...legit wreslter....that's not exactly hand picked favorable matchups
Whitaker cleaned out the division before getting a title shot
Masvidal had some tough fights...Lorenz Larkin, Benson Henderson, Cowboy Cerrone...not exactly favorable matchups
Pourier, Smith and Santos worked their way to title shots, and didnt get favorable matchups

 

[zxyss25]

Chris isn't too bad, but some fighters add muscle weight better than others. Rockhold added great mass, but he became too heavy and slow. His large arms can't be easily held up so he already average defense got worse. Plus Jan was really strong himself.

Seeing Santos and Smith run, there were still many old trash LHWs, it's just that higher ranked guy and more popular guys of MW, like Luke Weidman and soon Jacare, had to immediately fight top LHW guys rather build themselves up like RDA did to accustom to their weight.

RDA fought good competition at WW right away...Magny was highly ranked, Lawler was a former champ...even Saffedine was a former strikeforce champ

Santos originally moved up against Anyders, also a MW...i think as replacements, then fought a contender in Jan, plus Manuwa while he was still decent

Smith moved up to fight Shogun on short notice...then fought former title challenger Volkan...definitely not an easy route to the title shot

 

[DanAndroid]

I was listening to Jimmy Smith and he made the good point that being forced up never leads to good scenarios. Santos and Smith went up on their own accord. Weidman, Jacare, and Rockhold have all been effectively pushed out of the MW division. They aren't going to 205 because they want to be at 205, they go their because they think they can have an easier path to a title shot than at MW. I think the safest bet of the year is Jan via KO.

 

[zxyss25]

I was listening to Jimmy Smith and he made the good point that being forced up never leads to good scenarios. Santos and Smith went up on their own accord. Weidman, Jacare, and Rockhold have all been effectively pushed out of the MW division. They aren't going to 205 because they want to be at 205, they go their because they think they can have an easier path to a title shot than at MW. I think the safest bet of the year is Jan via KO.

Was Jacare forced out, or was there just currently no exciting matchups for him at MM, while he was coming off a loss

Jacare figures I go up to LHW...main event, and if i lose, I drop back to MW in the same position...its really a risk free trial at LHW for him

Similar to why Kevin Lee moved up for only 1 fight, coming off a loss, before going back to LW and getting the matchup he probably would have got anyway coming off the Iaquinta loss

 

[zxyss25]

Weidman basically got a risk free fight at LHW....similar to how we also get 30 day trails of products even we know we arent going to buy...just to try them out risk free

We all knew Weidman wasnt going to challenge Jones for the title

Noe he can go back to MW...coming off a big man event ESPN payday...in the same position he would have been, had he never gone up to LHW

And now Weidman get the same fight at MW...against a guy like Brad Tavares, Uriah Hall , Krystof Jotko...that he would have got anyway

That's why he didnt seem to upset post fight, and he had no intentions of retiring...just rebuilding

 

[X Factor]

I may get criticized by this...

But I think Rockhold has the potential to be a contender at LHW...if he works on his striking defense

His striking defense will cause him to get KOed at any weight class...whether by LHWs like Jan...or MWs like Bisping, Vitor and Romero

I think that is his biggest challenge right now, not the past weight cuts or formerly draining himself

I actually don’t disagree with you I think rockhold is a great fighter and definitely could be a contender with better defense but I also believe he’s not as durable as he once was because he’s drained himself for so long from weightcutting hard and weidman too weidman cut an absurd amount 32 pounds in 10 days before his fight with Maia in his 8th pro fight lol doing that shit over and over no doubt has some effect

 

[bertha]

That's not deep analysis at all. That's just dropping a few opinions on a multitude of fighters over the years.

Durability and style are the biggest components when transitioning. The mistake that Rockhold and Weidman both made is they took on big, seasoned, LHWs while competing for the first time up a weight class.

Outside of a handful of fighters who take strong style match ups when they are in their prime, generally, the trend of successful fighters moving up a class is that they take a few easier fights and get used to the weight before taking on young contenders/elite fighters in the division. There are always exceptions (Cormier, GSP, etc), but fighters like Gastelum, Masvidal, Whittaker, Smith, Santos, Porier, etc all had a series of well matched or favourable matchups that allowed them to get used to the new class.

agree