Wing Chun or Muay Thai? Which is Truly More Effective for Self Defense?

Aikidoka said:
Who's to say that Wing Chun sucks? I mean sure the watered down crap they teach at your local McDojo sucks and is worthless but visit China and you will find many teachers of original Wing Chun. Who's to say that some old Chinese sifu cannot beat Anderson Silva with a couple of well delivered open hand strikes? Unless you've went to China and actually trained in some ancient temple located in the mountains you cannot say that the ORIGINAL Wing Chun is not effective and would not fare well against MMA.
Click to expand...

You watch too many movies. HAHAHAHAHA!
 
Aikidoka said:
Well kind of. But I got my point across.
Click to expand...

No you didn't. :icon_chee

And any women MMA fighters will beat the living crap out of those "old chinese sifus" that you worship in a street fight. Even any decent high school wrestlers will. Anytime, anywhere, any day. ALL DAY!
 
Last edited:
kenpeters8 said:
Don't give me that crap. Gary Lam is a knucklehead dumb ass and he made that statement recently. Go ask him again right now, he'll tell you the exact same thing. He'll say he'll beat up any UFC fighters on the street. What a joke.

I bet Liz Carmouche can beat up Gary Lam in a street fight.
Click to expand...

I trained with Gary Lam for about a month. When I told him I trained in praying mantis for about 5 years when he asked me about my experience, he bashed mantis and told one of his students to show me some basics and that was that.

I have overheard him address his students about mma fighters. I remember one story he told about how he has a friend that was an mma fighter and decided to spar against each other. They both went at each other, but decided to stop after they both landed a punch to the face and bloodied each others noses. He acknowledged that mma guys are tough. He said mma guys train a bunch, lift weights, etc. They also get hurt a lot. Wing chun guys don't get hurt because they train with control. That was why they didn't spar, but only chi sau. This was about 7 or 8 years ago when he was teaching out of his backyard.

I can attest to his skill. He can handle any untrained person on the street. He could even handle a lot of trained people too because they would probably underestimate him. He hit me with one of his punches and there was a lot of power. I still don't understand the mechanics. He doesn't turn his body and it seem like an arm punch, but one of his students was showing me their power generation technique which is turning one's heels and hips, but not the body.

I also think Wing Chun is extremely limiting, but there are some good skills to be learned. I think it could be incorporated into the guard(bjj).

I think in terms of self defense, it's whatever a person will continue to do and to be able to stay healthy that will be the best self defense. If a guy that isn't that tough goes and does muay thai at one of those tough guy gyms, he might be injured all the time and might get a detached retina, etc. So how is a guy that is injured all the time going to defend himself effectively?

Self defense is more than 1 on 1 fighting. From what I've read and listened to on self defense, mentality is a big part. The best is to avoid any situation or not be put into a situation. If one must defend themselves, there needs to be no fear. Skill is important too, and I agree with some other posters who have recommended KM or Systema.
 
There's an emphasis on fair play and morals in Chinese martial arts. Meaning beating a MT guy to a bloody pulp for show is kind of like bullying someone for no reason. I could be wrong, I've never been to China.

I'm not saying one is superior but it seems years of training to show off your skills would make you a better ring fighter.
 
Aikidoka said:
Who's to say that Wing Chun sucks? I mean sure the watered down crap they teach at your local McDojo sucks and is worthless but visit China and you will find many teachers of original Wing Chun. Who's to say that some old Chinese sifu cannot beat Anderson Silva with a couple of well delivered open hand strikes? Unless you've went to China and actually trained in some ancient temple located in the mountains you cannot say that the ORIGINAL Wing Chun is not effective and would not fare well against MMA.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. A large number of kung fu masters fled/were driven out of China during the Chinese Civil War and subsequent Communist takeover. Furthermore, Wing Chun is far removed from its apocryphal Shaolin temple roots by at least several hundred years even by Wing Chun stylists' own estimates (it's a predominately school-based style; no Shaolin monks practice Wing Chun today as they have their own styles -- notably Northern and Southern Shaolin Fist variations ranging from commercial drek to introspective moving meditation). Most notable Wing Chun practitioners fled to Hong Kong, Macao, or the West during WWII and the Civil War, with a small minority that managed to stay in Guangdong province (notably the Foshan area).

Even though I consider Wing Chun to be a fundamentally flawed style, I at least took the time to learn about it and try it in several parts of the world. You should probably do the same before you make assumptions about what it is or isn't. Here's a good place to start:
 
What do you guys who have learned and/or sparred against Wing Chun practitioners honestly think of the video below? It's Wing Chun that apparently has some Boxing/Muay Thai incorporated into it (the weaving, protecting against hooks like a Nak Muay, putting the hands up like a Boxer to an extent, et cetera).

I know it's good they train with pads but do you feel if Wing Chun incorporates some Boxing/Muay Thai techniques like in the video, it makes it effective for self defense, actual combat against skillful opponents unlike traditional Wing Chun? Enough to be as effective as Muay Thai or Kyokushin Karate? Why or why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF5l0ooCqlU
 
ask yourself "which has full contact competition and is shown to be effective against not just a random stooge but other trained individuals"

boxing, muay thai, judo wrestling, bjj
 
No sh*t. I've seen entire WC seminars that exclusively explored ways to deal with the boxing jab- straight combination. Half hour seminars. WC practioners are dangerously unprepared for actual fights until way late in their development, and even then, their methods are questionable.
 
say it once again, depends on where they learned who they learned under and how they train/prepare; it depends on that individual. Nine times out of ten tma type arts have more variation from dojo to dojo..stylist to stylist; whereas there is more consistency in muay thai kickboxing boxing, as it pertains to quality of training..intensity..realism and contact.

i know people who have done muay thai, never sparred a day in their life; but have been training actively at a real gym for three plus years. I have known karateka tkd guys and wing chun guys who spar alot and spar alot of diff styles..hard sparring; so it really depends on other factors, but nine times out of ten the mma muay thai boxing kickboxing guys are more legit. But some kung fu guys do..my brothers coach is a lifelong kung fu guy but boxed amateur and wrestled and made it a point to spar diff stylist in their arena.

my brother doesn't spar as much but has been in w/cho li fut guys muay thai and kickboxing types; a wing chun guy i work out w/is similar in that he can fight, but that is due to the way he was taught the system and the mentality his coach fostered
 
The real question isnt WC vs MT

the real question is slightly modified WC AKA Europe Wing Tsun, or just some basis WC aka JKD vs Muay Boran. Add a lil bit of Greco, some MT/Kyokushin style low kicks and walla....


WC isnt bad, it just makes bad people, most get trappy happy instead of realizing clear to hit. it also is in the middle range which is the least amount of time in any fight, easiest to close....

just like all the mid range kali and silat stuff......dont throw it out, but not so useful, compared to just learning how to enter irimi from far to close.

Pretty damn good wing chun beats bad karate
 
DanTheWolfman.com said:
The real question isnt WC vs MT

the real question is slightly modified WC AKA Europe Wing Tsun, or just some basis WC aka JKD vs Muay Boran. Add a lil bit of Greco, some MT/Kyokushin style low kicks and walla....


WC isnt bad, it just makes bad people, most get trappy happy instead of realizing clear to hit. it also is in the middle range which is the least amount of time in any fight, easiest to close....

just like all the mid range kali and silat stuff......dont throw it out, but not so useful, compared to just learning how to enter irimi from far to close.

Pretty damn good wing chun beats bad karate
Click to expand...


That was absolutely terrible from both of them. They were both terrified.
 
I have to admit that I think a good MT, Wrestler/folk wrestler/bjj, or boxer would have really did a number on both these guys... I don't think traditional martial arts does well against styles that are constantly tested/sparred.
 
Why would anyone think Wing Chun is worthwhile? What is the appeal other than Bruce Lee movies?
 
My critique of WingChun is the same as Haruzake
 
Last edited:
MMA-JORGE said:
I have to admit that I think a good MT, Wrestler/folk wrestler/bjj, or boxer would have really did a number on both these guys... I don't think traditional martial arts does well against styles that are constantly tested/sparred.
Click to expand...

This.
 
PocketNinja said:
ask yourself "which has full contact competition and is shown to be effective against not just a random stooge but other trained individuals"

boxing, muay thai, judo wrestling, bjj
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth
 
I think that to some extent the problem with traditional martial arts these days is that nobody remotely athletic does them, those people go to sport fighting. Because of the relative lack of athletes, TMA has used the myth of making anyone a competent fighter as its marketing strategy. Just because Mas Oyama or Lyoto Machida can be effective with karate doesn't mean that karate can turn anyone into Mas Oyama if they put in enough hard work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,054
Messages
55,464,040
Members
174,785
Latest member
JoyceOuthw

Share this page

Back
Top