Why no spinning hook kicks to the legs?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by biscuitsbrah, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Obviously a low percentage move, but I figure if thrown enough by fighters that one of these could land with devastating effects, no?

    Got hit with one of these today, perfectly timed to my back quad, it was completely controlled probably at like 20% force but my leg is still pretty damn sore. If he had gone full force no doubt I probably would have gone to the hospital.
     
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  2. Ryukyu Damashi

    Ryukyu Damashi Ryukyu Damashi

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    Andy Hug vs Mike Bernardo
     
  3. blitzk

    blitzk Red Belt

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    Adlan Amagov, brah.

    I hope he comes back, he's full of stuff like this.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Sorry I meant MMA
     
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  5. Jukai

    Jukai Silver Belt

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    Because in that second you are spinning to gain momentum, you are vulnerable for a takedown--- and you need to throw it closer than a normal spinning heel kick or back kick.

    Combine that with the fact that because of the grappling aspect, very few UFC fighters put in the time to train moves like this, you will only see this move done by people with great kicks and a great sense of distance--- and generally a very confident ground game.
     
  6. MarxP

    MarxP White Belt

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    Andy Hug was able to throw his so often in K-1 since he couldn't be taken down. The risk of this kick simply outweighs the reward in MMA.
     
  7. SongXIII

    SongXIII Red Belt Platinum Member

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    Too much risk involved for something as simple as a leg kick..
     
  8. Soggybiscuit

    Soggybiscuit Orange Belt

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    A bit too flashy for my liking.
     
  9. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    ^This
     
  10. barnowl

    barnowl Green Belt

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    Lets be honest, it is not the risk that stops it. It is plain and simple lack of abilty to even throw the kick. If you don't train it you can't use it. Most pure "MMA" style fighters simply have to much to cover to spend time branching off much past the basics in all areas.

    I use it even against grapplers becuase I have over a decade of practice with it before I started MMA type sparring. On the other hand I have a very very limited set of takedowns becuase I have to spend so much time to practice adding them to what I already know.
     
  11. SongXIII

    SongXIII Red Belt Platinum Member

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    I come from a heavy kicking background (TKD), and would never throw that kick. A standard leg kick does the trick, is very low-risk, and requires little energy. The potential increase in power generated from the spin would not overcome the risk of being countered. Spinning head/body kicks are one thing, but they actually have enough fight stopping ability to be worth the risk.
     
  12. Jukai

    Jukai Silver Belt

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    Prettttty sure it's both.... You're giving up your back for that kick, and since you can't spin around cleanly by hitting the thigh, you either need to spin back around quick or be stopped dead in your tracks. It's fine on an opponent moving away, but if they change direction as you do the move, you are almost guaranteed to get your back taken.

    There isn't even any reward for the knockout like a regular spinning kick. It's a more painful leg kick.
     
  13. MarxP

    MarxP White Belt

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    A spinning heel kick to the thigh does far more damage than an outside low kick.
     
  14. SongXIII

    SongXIII Red Belt Platinum Member

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    I know, I said as much.. but, throwing it still isn't worth the risk.
     
  15. apizur**

    apizur** Aggressive Finesse.

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    Cuz if you miss you've broken your opponent's knee, Jon Jones.
     
  16. Vil7

    Vil7 Silver Belt

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    I think it's not so much that you turn your back that is the problem. Throwing a spinning wheel or hook kick leaves you vulnerable after it is blocked by the opponent because they are in an advantageous position at your side/flank after. If the opponent is smart they will move in for a flurry or shoot for a takedown immediately after they defend and before you can reset and adjust back to your stance.


    With the spinning back kick you at least push your opponent back and should be square with the opponent if they block it. It's still not used an overwhelming amount though because kicking ability is still relatively low in MMA particularly with fighters coming from wrestling or bjj backgrounds.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  17. barnowl

    barnowl Green Belt

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    Which gets back to why it never gets practiced. I use them becuase I they tend to be a natural follow to a lot of upper body techs for me. If you don't know and it and it is not natural for you, you won't practice/learn it and there for won't use it.
     
  18. SongXIII

    SongXIII Red Belt Platinum Member

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    (IMO)

    It has less to do with being 'natural', or a follow up attack that flows with certain combos (ie: jab, cross, step, spin hook [similar to above gif]), it has more to do with the risk outweighing the reward. I could throw that kick all day if I wanted, but I won't. If I'm going to throw a spinning kick, I'm aiming for the head or body, not the legs. No matter how much you practice spinning kicks, there will always be a point where you're ''blind'' and your back is turned to your opponent. Adding a little more power to a leg kick will never make attempting that attack ''worth it'', even if you're comfortable with throwing it. The only time I could see it being used 'comfortably' is if your opponent is timid and way outclassed, but that goes for most flashy, high-risk techniques as well.


    More power to you if you can execute it consistently, I just don't think it can be done at a high level in MMA.


    [edit] I understand and agree with what you're saying though. Spinning techniques in general aren't used as much because most fighters just haven't been trained to (or flat out can't) execute them properly. They aren't comfortable enough to land them, especially considering the risk involved. The fighters who do throw spinning kicks often usually come from a kicking background, and they practice those techniques regularly. It's not really 'branching off' for those guys, so it doesn't interfere with their 'MMA' training.

    The question is how to get fighters/gyms with more traditional wrestling/boxing backgrounds to incorporate more 'intermediate' level kicking techniques that aren't used as often as the common leg/body kicks we see most fighters throw. As you mentioned, they are sacrificing training in an area they are comfortable with/good at to attempt to learn new techniques that won't necessarily be beneficial for them (for a while at least, if ever). Even if they do become adequate/good with them, they still spent a lot of time training techniques they will rarely use, and are still higher risk techniques than what they would have been practicing. It's all a gamble, which is why I feel so many trainers/fighters tend to use the more basic techniques. (I don't necessarily agree with that philosophy btw. I really enjoy the fighters who learn to incorporate more 'unorthodox' or rarely used TMA techniques in their MMA striking arsenal [Pettis, Le, etc]).
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  19. Bobbybackpack

    Bobbybackpack Blue Belt

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    True but you could throw it on someone like Joanna, Mark Hunt, Lawler, Ngannou, Holm, McGregor. Basically someone who pretty much never tries takedowns unless they're getting fucked up.

    Oh and sorry for the late response and thread necroing. I just discovered spinning kicks to the leg and Sherdog is awesome.
     
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  20. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    That was not a spinning hook kick
     

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