Why I believe the Alt-right and neo-nazis are a ticking time bomb [potentially dengerous]

[Trotsky]

Basically the OP is trying to plant the seed of doubt that terrorist attacks are false flags set up by the far right. He's a duplicitous hack.

I'll agree with you that the further from center a group is, the more of a threath they pose. So which group is further from center? Fundamental Islam or the alt-right? I'm not including neo nazis in that question due to lack of numbers and influence.

Edit: due to being directionally challenged

Firstly, you can't not include neo-Nazis because they demonstrably do have influence by virtue of their ideology--not rhetoric, mind you--being almost indistinguishable from the movement's mainstream. Regarding whether is "further from the center," that depends on how you define the center and if you define it relatively or statically. To define it relative to the advancement of cultures and economies, it's basically a wash with regard to social policy. If you wish to define it statically, i.e. which is further from American norms, then of course Islamic extremists are more extreme.

If you're speaking about non-social political beliefs (in this case, fairly purely economic and labor policy), then even radical Islamic groups, whether considered relative to static or relative norms, are not as extreme as the alt-right and do not have major traction in large macro politics. While Islamic extremists don't form homogeneous and persuasive political attitudes regarding distribution of wealth, management of economy, etc., the alt-right shows an alarmingly prideful political illiteracy on those issues, while maintaining promotion of reactionary and unprincipled deconstruction of established, centuries-old organizational and political apparatuses. They've been so brainwashed by a generation of far-right rhetoric, which has lacked any political or historical nuance, that they're perfectly okay with privatizing public services, gutting entitlements and converting towards debunked supply side economics, removing worker protections and wage standards, simultaneously increasing spending and slashing taxes on the rich, and a whole mess of other moronic trends that don't really have any substantive basis, but make them feel like they're sticking it to the man.

Say what you will about murderous Islamic extremists, at least they have the independence to control their own influence: the alt-right is rapidly approaching a scenario in which they gleefully hand over all of their rights, power, and capital to the ultra-rich, deconstruct complicated and nuanced political frameworks built by centuries of brilliant men, forfeit opportunities afforded to them by the blood and tears of their ancestors, and giggle confidently while the great majority gets marginalized into the gutter and the boot stomps us all to death.

 

[AviatorShades]

They're equally far right movements, but power determines the level of threat, too. There's an international movement to weaken the Western Alliance and Western culture, and the president of the U.S. is at least sympathetic to it.



I referred to the alt-right/neo-Nazis rather than revivalists. Talking about the Enlightenment, universalism rather than tribalism, rule of law, representative democracy, reason-based policymaking, secularism, etc.

That's what they are though, revivalists. You may not like them but their unifying goal is western cultural revival and turning western nations back into Japan-like nation-states rather than loosely defined multicultural economic institutions. Notably missing from your definition are westerners themselves or anything resembling culture.

"Universalism"? The defining trait of western culture is its own neutrality and eventual dissolution? That's the sort of answer I was hoping for, to expose your fake concern for a "western culture" you are neither truly a part of nor in favor of preserving.

I'm not saying your own ideology -- some sort of multicultural, economic-determinist spin on nihilism -- isn't most common in the west, but it isn't western culture. It's something that replaced western culture relatively recently.

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's what they are though, revivalists. You may not like them but their unifying goal is western cultural revival and turning western nations back into Japan-like nation-states rather than loosely defined multicultural economic institutions. Notably missing from your definition are westerners themselves or anything resembling culture.

"Universalism"? The defining trait of western culture is its own neutrality and eventual dissolution? That's the sort of answer I was hoping for, to expose your fake concern for a "western culture" you are neither truly a part of nor in favor of preserving.

I'm not saying your own ideology -- some sort of multicultural, economic-determinist spin on nihilism -- isn't most common in the west, but it isn't western culture. It's something that replaced western culture relatively recently.

Sorry for assuming you would be familiar with the Enlightenment (you have an odd definition of "recent"). Look it up and get back to me. That's where Western culture becomes a distinctive thing (that is, a unified Western culture) and the greatest contribution the West has made to the world. Turning Western nations back to Japan-like nation-states (FYI, Japan is not part of the West, unless you define the West in terms of Enlightenment influence) turns back the clock to before we have a West (and before America, which was founded on Enlightenment ideals, existed). So you're making my point for me. You want us to be more like non-Western nations because you don't believe in Western culture. And people like you are the big threat to Western culture.

 

[AviatorShades]

Sorry for assuming you would be familiar with the Enlightenment (you have an odd definition of "recent"). Look it up and get back to me. That's where Western culture becomes a distinctive thing (that is, a unified Western culture) and the greatest contribution the West has made to the world. Turning Western nations back to Japan-like nation-states (FYI, Japan is not part of the West, unless you define the West in terms of Enlightenment influence) turns back the clock to before we have a West (and before America, which was founded on Enlightenment ideals, existed). So you're making my point for me. You want us to be more like non-Western nations because you don't believe in Western culture. And people like you are the big threat to Western culture.

Japan is not in the west? OK. Thanks for that.

Your chronology is broken in regards to the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment was the precursor to the rise of nation-states by about a century.

I won't get a "dammn you got owneddd" or hot dog gif from HomerThompson because I am not part of a forum clique but you made a pretty humiliating mistake just now which shattered your own argument. I hope it doesn't go unnoticed.

Besides that, since you insist on me addressing the Enlightenment, how does the alt-right threaten Enlightenment principles?

The alt-right is a young secular nationalist movement which has grown as an alternative to the globalist left and dwindling/aging religious center-right alliance. Do they threaten the Enlightenment's separation of church and state? The influence of merchants? What precisely? If anything I'm having a difficult time contrasting the two. The secular nation-state vision of the alt-right would essentially mirror the actual historical outcome of the Enlightenment.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Japan is not in the west? OK. Thanks for that.

Didn't seem like you got it.

Your chronology is broken in regards to the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment was the precursor to the rise of nation-states by about a century.

I won't get a "dammn you got owneddd" or hot dog gif from HomerThompson because I am not part of a forum clique but you made a pretty humiliating mistake just now which shattered your own argument. I hope it doesn't go unnoticed.

Not at all. It's not a relevant issue. We obviously still have modern nations, but that doesn't satisfy the alt right. You were hinting at ethnonationalism (your gimmick is that you're a non-white white nationalist, no?), as "Japan for white people" is how a lot of the alt-right wants to remake America.

Besides that, since you insist on me addressing the Enlightenment, how does the alt-right threaten Enlightenment principles?

The alt-right is a young secular nationalist movement which has grown as an alternative to the globalist left and dwindling/aging religious center-right alliance. Do they threaten the Enlightenment's separation of church and state? The influence of merchants? What precisely? If anything I'm having a difficult time contrasting the two. The secular nation-state vision of the alt-right would essentially mirror the actual historical outcome of the Enlightenment.

It's an authoritarian, anti-democratic, race-based tribalist movement that rejects empiricism and political rights. What's odd about your stance here is that most alt-right thinkers are explicitly anti-West, and you yourself have advocated murdering political opponents (you'll be first against the wall in your own revolution). ThegreatA has previously argued, essentially, that we have to temporarily abandon our values in order to save them.

 

[godking]

You happened to skip the entire post I typed out because it prvoved the point you made wrong.

And no other election anywhere does the popular vote lose. Especially when you win by 3 million people.

Did Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump BOTH campaign for the electoral college vote the only vote that matters yes or no?

Who won that campaign ?

 

[tramendous]

TS needs a dose of reality!

When you want to make a muslim meme but are too stupid and use a sikh turban

 

[Jim Bob]

When you want to make a muslim meme but are too stupid and use a sikh turban

God Bless you man.

 

[ShoelessRye]

http://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...te-crime-murders-is-a-known-white-supremacist

Suspect in Portland Hate Crime Murders is a Known White Supremacist

 

[AviatorShades]

Didn't seem like you got it.



Not at all. It's not a relevant issue. We obviously still have modern nations, but that doesn't satisfy the alt right. You were hinting at ethnonationalism (your gimmick is that you're a non-white white nationalist, no?), as "Japan for white people" is how a lot of the alt-right wants to remake America.



It's an authoritarian, anti-democratic, race-based tribalist movement that rejects empiricism and political rights. What's odd about your stance here is that most alt-right thinkers are explicitly anti-West, and you yourself have advocated murdering political opponents (you'll be first against the wall in your own revolution). ThegreatA has previously argued, essentially, that we have to temporarily abandon our values in order to save them.

Yes I am a crazy and want to murder you and so on. Good. Let's move on.

Your original argument was that the alt-right is a threat to "western culture" as defined primarily by the Enlightenment, which you mistakenly believed to be a period of curing or "universalizing" the ills of nationalism/tribalism.

The Enlightenment balkanized crude multicultural religious monarchies into the nation-states of the 19th century. The secular nationalist outcome of the Enlightenment is identical to the unifying objective of the alt-right and empirical inspiration is drawn from a period of simultaneous modernization and ethnocultural liberation. Western youth are conditioned to think those two phenomenon incompatible and bow to imminent globalism. Of all the periods of western culture you could have hand-selected to contrast against the alt-right you chose perhaps the most similar.

Japan is a famous example of a modern country that preserved most of the traits of a nation-state rather than succumbing to the hardcore "capitalist vs socialist" economic determinism/multiculturalism of the 20th century west -- which was a sort of reversal of the Enlightenment sans the return of theocracy (although it made a minor ideological comeback as citizens of nihilistic economy-states desperately searched for a unifying identity).

We are operating at two different frequencies here. You tried to accuse me of not even knowing when the Enlightenment happened or where Japan is. As it turns out, that's about all you know.

Mischaracterization is the left's primary weapon against the alt-right movement.

Although established to pry political power back from the religious-right/neo-con bloc, they are deliberately mischaracterized as an extreme wing of those groups. If you are willing to characterize them properly I think you will see how silly it is to call them a "threat to western culture". They are among its dwindling heirs.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

read the comment section to any Alex Jones video on facebook..... if that isnt reason to worry you then you have issues

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

read the comment section to any Alex Jones video on facebook..... if that isnt reason to worry you then you have issues

Simply go over to Breitbart and read their comment section. Absolutely hilarious and also horrifying.

 

[Kframe]

Single funniest thing I have read all day! LOLZ at all the irony throughout that!

 

[Kframe]

Nobody is defending the killers. We're defending the people who haven't done anything but live peaceful lives.

Sadly there is no way to tell who is a normal muslim just living their life, and who is just biding his time, lying in wait..

 

[Kframe]

That's why right wing terrorists are number 2 on that whole "terror attacks committed" list, because antifa and BLM are the problem.

<puh-lease75>

Everytime BLM comes out to play, they burn a city down.

 

[Kframe]

The top two existential threats to western civilization right now are:

1. It's people's own stupidity

2. A potential crack down on the free press

#1 brought a massively unfit authoritarian fool into power.

Said authoritarian fool has waxed poetical about #2.

Trump would love nothing more than to be able to muzzle his critics. It's what he dreams of. That's where the true threat to what we are as a nation is located.

No better then a press who gave Obama 92% favorable coverage.. Damn press core tripped over themselves to bend over in front of him..

 

[Kframe]

Well, that's certainly a compelling argument. No one wants to be an idiot, especially with the modifier "fucking." But, you know, I think you're very naive if you don't take the threat that they pose to Western values seriously. So who is right? Go to the tape. An incompetent, anti-West kleptocrat is the president of America, and every day norms that maintain our society are falling. The whole Western alliance has been shaken, though we're seeing some signs of revival (like with Macron's win).



Give it a little more thought. I think you can figure this one out.

What are these everyday norms you are speaking of?

 

[Kframe]

. We should hold them to the same standards. If they show they don't meet those standards, don't let them in.

We are trying to keep them out, but lefties like you keep wanting more of them to be brought in.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I didn't read the OP, but I think people are being naive if they don't realize that Western culture is being seriously threatened by those guys. The big lesson of the past year is that civilization and modernity are much more fragile than people had previously realized.

It's the insane Left that is responsible for forcing us to realize this lesson.

 

[ehtheist]

They're equally far right movements, but power determines the level of threat, too. There's an international movement to weaken the Western Alliance and Western culture, and the president of the U.S. is at least sympathetic to it.



I referred to the alt-right/neo-Nazis rather than revivalists. Talking about the Enlightenment, universalism rather than tribalism, rule of law, representative democracy, reason-based policymaking, secularism, etc.

Just for a refresher... You lump me in on the tribalism side of this, and you consider universalism as in some important way tied to Enlightenment ideals? Or do I remember it wrong?