Why don't bodybuilders just do full body routines?

[Mr Mojo Lane]

I do full-body, too, but the other post has said two things that confuse me:

-full body trains endurance and slow twitch (definitely not true)

-he trains HIT, not full-body (but every HIT routine I've ever seen has been full body)

So I'm hoping he explains. I'm wondering if there's a misunderstanding about what a full-body routine is.

Arthur Jones, who might be the godfather of HIT), did full body and to failure. This guy is only doing it once a week.


Yates and Mentzer were definitely on splits. Mentzer said never train two days in a row and said that most people will need to train every 4 days.

I'll add more later

 

[don't ask]

Arthur Jones, who might be the godfather of HIT) did full body and to failure. This guy is only doing it once a week.


Yates and Mentzer were definitely on splits. Mentzer said never train two days in a row and said that most people will need to train every 4 days.

I'll add more later

I now know HIT splits are a thing. But why did you think full body routines are for slow twitch / endurance?

 

[mr.sandman]

I do full-body, too, but the other post has said two things that confuse me:

-full body trains endurance and slow twitch (definitely not true)

-he trains HIT, not full-body (but every HIT routine I've ever seen has been full body)

So I'm hoping he explains. I'm wondering if there's a misunderstanding about what a full-body routine is.

full body routine can be whatever you want it to be. If you do it circuit style, medium weight, then it trains endurance mainly. The way i do it is compound lifts mainl and heavy weights. its strength & hypertrophy oriented

 

[don't ask]

full body routine can be whatever you want it to be. If you do it circuit style, medium weight, then it trains endurance mainly. The way i do it is compound lifts mainl and heavy weights. its strength & hypertrophy oriented

If you're moving explosively, then you can build fast twitch fibres just fine.

Anyways, this is the statement that has confused me:

Isn't Full-Body very slow-twitch and more endurance?

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

Some do full body routines.
Some do, but depends on which training program they are on.

For those that don't, a multitude of reasons.
1. Recovery time differs for the different body parts. You would potentially be under training certain parts and over training (under recovering) others.
2. Time in the gym could be too long.
3. Run out of energy mid-session. Even if the muscle groups are different, after doing 500 pound squats and 600 pound leg presses, your bench will be underperformed.

Finally, in the training circles they are not only talking about split methods. A number of specialists talk about full body routine benefits, when to do it, and how to do it.

Yes.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

Are you full body guys going to failure three times a week?

The only two full body guys that I have listened to do not go to failure at all and I think they are leaving more RIR than what they think.

 

[mr.sandman]

Are you full body guys going to failure three times a week?

The only two full body guys that I have listened to do not go to failure at all and I think they are leaving more RIR than what they think.

Back in the day when i did full body 3x week, i did 1 exercise 4 sets per muscle per workout and always went till failure or very close to it. The overall volume comes 12 sets per muscle per week and is within the optimal range for hypertrophy according to sports science.

If you are more beginner you can go heavy weight every workout and progress (like I did) . If youre more advanced I think it is better to have heavy medium and light day so nervous system etc can recover better

You can do same exercise 3x week or you can switch it up do like bench press monday, dumbbell incline wednesday and weighted dips on friday

Important is to try to add reps at first and then up the weight. If you just do same wieght same reps every week you will go nowhere

This is one of the simplest and straight forward routines ever and i can attest that it works atleast for beginner / intermediate lifters

Bruce lee trained pretty much like this also

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Full Body is great if natty.

Or if you train twice or 3 times at week and are short of time... or if you don't train hard.

Imagine training leg press or hack squat intense and having to bench press or do some compound later. That is ridiculous.

 

[vision1]

Imagine training leg press or hack squat intense and having to bench press or do some compound later. That is ridiculous.

That's what most full body programs are like. Quite standard.

 

[Volador]

Or if you train twice or 3 times at week and are short of time... or if you don't train hard.

Imagine training leg press or hack squat intense and having to bench press or do some compound later. That is ridiculous.

It’s not really ridiculous at all lol. Plenty of high level lifters train in both ways. You don’t have to train everything high volume and very heavy every single session; it doesn’t mean you’re not training hard.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

You don’t have to train everything high volume and very heavy every single session; it doesn’t mean you’re not training hard.

High volume and very heavy exclude each other.

If you are able to do high volume you are not lifting something "very heavy". It is relative of course. There are guys that can do 15 reps with 400 pounds in a squat.. that means it is not very heavy for them. I would get physically crushed by that weight.

What I mean with training hard is going close to failure with 5+ reps. I don't think you can go close to failure in lets say hack squat and then perform well with other muscle groups.. you would be fried.

 

[Volador]

High volume and very heavy exclude each other.

If you are able to do high volume you are not lifting something "very heavy". It is relative of course. There are guys that can do 15 reps with 400 pounds in a squat.. that means it is not very heavy for them. I would get physically crushed by that weight.

What I mean with training hard is going close to failure with 5+ reps. I don't think you can go close to failure in lets say hack squat and then perform well with other muscle groups.. you would be fried.

I mostly agree with you. And yes, I agree that it's relative. I meant high volume in the context of your own training program or volume tolerance. Some sessions can be programmed with lower volume or less intense work by design for a certain exercise while a different one is trained with more intensity or volume in the same session while you're fresh. In those programs I can totally see someone training a few hard sets @RPE 8 on squats, and then doing dumbbell bench, or close grip, or whatever, for relatively higher reps/lower intensity. It's nothing that I think is violently out of the norm. Especially in more "powerbuilding-ish" kind of programs, where people want to maintain their skill and practice the big compound lifts often without focusing purely on bodybuilding it's pretty common to see that, and it seems to work for some people, that's all I meant.

 

[vision1]

What I mean with training hard is going close to failure with 5+ reps. I don't think you can go close to failure in lets say hack squat and then perform well with other muscle groups.. you would be fried.

You might not perform "well" but you'll perform better than you would have with the same muscle group.
That's the advantage of full body programs. Muscle fatigue is not an issues, allowing you to lift at a higher intensity.

Benching after those leg presses is easier than squatting after those leg presses.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

I mostly agree with you. And yes, I agree that it's relative. I meant high volume in the context of your own training program or volume tolerance. Some sessions can be programmed with lower volume or less intense work by design for a certain exercise while a different one is trained with more intensity or volume in the same session while you're fresh. In those programs I can totally see someone training a few hard sets @RPE 8 on squats, and then doing dumbbell bench, or close grip, or whatever, for relatively higher reps/lower intensity. It's nothing that I think is violently out of the norm. Especially in more "powerbuilding-ish" kind of programs, where people want to maintain their skill and practice the big compound lifts often without focusing purely on bodybuilding it's pretty common to see that, and it seems to work for some people, that's all I meant.

Well I'm not saying full body workouts are not good (I think they are great) but in the context of hypertrophy I don't think they are optimal. That was TS question... why bodybuilders do not train like that.

I can train 6 times at week so I can do a split and train every muscle group twice at week. If I only had time for 3 I would go with full body 100%.

But that is me.. I love high frequency. I would train full body workouts everyday if I could lol.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Well I'm not saying full body workouts are not good (I think they are great) but in the context of hypertrophy I don't think they are optimal.

I think the problem with generalizations like this is that they don't account for relativity (which you ironically point out above). It depends where you're at relative to your genetic potential. IMHO for hypertrophy you're best served doing full body workouts 3 x week until you've achieved your linear noob gains on SBD. After that, you can switch to BB style workouts depending on your goals. But if you start with, and only do high rep, isolation exercises 6 days/week, it will take much longer (if ever) for you to be an intermediate lifter in terms of both strength and hypertrophy.

 

[mr.sandman]

Well I'm not saying full body workouts are not good (I think they are great) but in the context of hypertrophy I don't think they are optimal. That was TS question... why bodybuilders do not train like that.

I can train 6 times at week so I can do a split and train every muscle group twice at week. If I only had time for 3 I would go with full body 100%.

But that is me.. I love high frequency. I would train full body workouts everyday if I could lol.

You can get very far with good planned full body routines, far into advanced territory wich is much further then noob gains. But at some point you will need to mix it up probably if you want to keep progressing and get into elite.

For the average joe who is stuck in intermidient land it doesnt matter probably wich split he does result is same.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

You can get very far with good planned full body routines, far into advanced territory wich is much further then noob gains. But at some point you will need to mix it up probably if you want to keep progressing and get into elite.

For the average joe who is stuck in intermidient land it doesnt matter probably wich split he does result is same.

For the average Joe for sure. Full body are awesome.

TS was posting about bodybuilders tho.

 

[NoSmilez]

Well I'm not saying full body workouts are not good (I think they are great) but in the context of hypertrophy I don't think they are optimal. That was TS question... why bodybuilders do not train like that.

I can train 6 times at week so I can do a split and train every muscle group twice at week. If I only had time for 3 I would go with full body 100%.

But that is me.. I love high frequency. I would train full body workouts everyday if I could lol.

Whole body workout isn't really new. It's something that was used before the bro/body-part split became common place in bodybuilding. I don't think general public will benefit from a bro split because of lack of gear. They can't hammer their body part to the degree an enhanced lifter would do. Those advanced bodybuilders have lagging body parts that need considerable amount of stressors to grow.

General public also don't live in a gym. If you miss a day doing bro splits. You aren't hitting that body part until the second week.

 

[Sano]

Nice to see Bronze Age lifters getting mentioned ITT. Their physique goals and training methods were quite interesting. Seems like the pioneering bodybuilders of that age tailored their aesthetics after greek and roman mythology and they mostly trained with makeshift barbells. Lot's of gymnasts, strongmen and circus performers in there too.

 

[ChickenBrother]

You can get very far with good planned full body routines, far into advanced territory wich is much further then noob gains. But at some point you will need to mix it up probably if you want to keep progressing and get into elite.

For the average joe who is stuck in intermidient land it doesnt matter probably wich split he does result is same.

I became a fan of full body powerlifting routines at 40 after 25 years of grinding 6 days/week doing bro splits, because Muscle & Fitness magazine told me that's what Lee Haney and Dorian Yates did. On gear you have a lot more latitude but if you're natty and not genetically gifted, I seriously question whether the average person can reach intermediate level WITHOUT doing full body. I know I couldn't.

Isolation exercises make no damn sense unless you're intermediate+ and need them to continue making gains. In years and years of split routines, the only lift I reached intermediate on was bench, and that's because it was the only barbell lift I did regularly. On "leg day" I would run, do leg presses, machines and other bullshit. But those don't stress your legs and back the way barbell squats do. And if you're doing heavy barbell squats, you can't train 6 x week to failure without limiting your gains. Regrettably I know this first hand.

It's obvious to anyone who's been around for a while and tried both modes of training, but if you're still in noob strength territory, by far the fastest way to get bigger and stronger is to do a full body powerlifting routine like 5x5 or Starting Strength with barbell squats 3 x week and force yourself to take recovery days in between. Once you can't progress linearly any more doing that, you'll be intermediate and only then would it make sense to switch to bro splits IF you want to. Of course you can still progress on full body intermediate programs like Mad Cow, which I liked.