Why Does Soy Reduce Estrogen Levels In studies?

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by biohacked.entrepreneur, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. biohacked.entrepreneur

    biohacked.entrepreneur White Belt

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    Soy is widely known in health circles as pro-estrogenic and feminizing and men are recommended to avoid it. If that’s actually the case, can anyone explain why serum estrogen levels actually decrease in soy-supplemented groups in studies in both men and women? And why is there an inverse relationship between hormone dependent cancers such as breast and prostate cancer (I suppose all cancers are hormone dependent) and soy consumption? Here are just some of the studies I’m talking about:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8770469 - 36-oz of daily soymilk consumption for a month significantly decreased serum 17 beta-estradiol levels in premenopausal women.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9839524 - Estrone and estradiol levels were decreased by 23% and 27% at the end of the study in the soy milk supplemented group in Japanese women. The change in estrone and estradiol levels was minor in the control, non-soy group.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11303585 - Serum estrone concentrations decreased in the soy-supplemented group in Japanese men. There was no change in testosterone levels in both the soy group and the control group.

    Is it that the estrogen circulation in blood decreases from soy but estrogen level inside the cell increases? Is that why soy is so widely considered as ‘estrogenic’?
     
  2. William Huggins

    William Huggins Green Belt

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    Maybe, just maybe the plant based estrogen is not picked up on the test and the endocrine system is trying to balance itself, so it lowers the estrogen levels in the body to off set the plant based stuff.
     
  3. Bluesbreaker

    Bluesbreaker Brown Belt

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    Propaganda from the animal agriculture industry.
     
  4. Ultra O’Dia

    Ultra O’Dia Green Belt

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    I could search for the link, but Im on my way to work. The study that is responsible for the mindset that I grew up with in the 90s was all it took for everyone to buy into the ‘you’ll get tits and no erections if you use that stuff’ belief. ncrease in estrogen instead of 1.9%. The study also only used twelve people -six placebo, six test. The group released the corrected figure shortly after, but the magazines were already preaching the gospel.

    Subsequent tests, like the ones you have linked, have been virtually ignored as the gym crowd already knows that soy is for women.

    And ya, meat industry.

    All that said, I avoid soy protein powders. I think they just use the leftovers from what they feed to livestock. Cheap, GMO based shit, might be full of pesticides or something, but they make me fart way too much and feel shitty. No problem with tofu, miso, tempeh, etc, though, and, I wouldn’t be surprised if an organic soy protein was just fine. Never tried, though.
     
  5. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    Just my educated 2 cents, Id guess there is something in soy (an isoflavone or something) that decreases aromatase levels in men slightly. Less aromatase means less estrogen in men. In women, Id say that the estrogens in soy occupy the estradiol receptors while not providing a whole lot of stimulation to it. This would lead to a decrease in the production of estrogens in women. This effect could also be at play in men, and it could theoretically increase testosterone levels slightly, but I cant see how this particular mechanism would effect estrogen levels in men since we don't actually have a gland or anything that produces estrogens. All of our estrogens are converted from testosterone.
     
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  6. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    This is probably a huge part of it. If people are eating a bunch of processed shit that happens to be soy based, there is going to most likely be a lot of other shit in it that screws with your endocrine system. as for eating tofu and soy beans, especially organic ones, I cant see how or why that would have any negative effect on testosterone.
     
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  7. wufabufa

    wufabufa Brown Belt

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    And think about how that processed stuff is stored and then cooked/reheated later? All in cheap plastic full of BPA and other endocrine disruptors. I know plastics are part of our lives' now and we can't really avoid them, but when possible I store my lunches in glass containers for reheating later.
     
  8. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    Its really sad man. Think about how pervasive all this unhealthy, corrupted, franken-food shit is in today's day and age. I feel like even those of us who make a conscious effort to eat right are still consuming a ton of unhealthy shit. Ive always wondered about this too. Think about it. If I have a mainstream, corporate food company that factory farms, uses gmos, and pesticides, etc. Why wouldn't I just set up a side thing that is supposedly organic when word starts to get out that my food is shit? This way you get everyone.
     
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  9. BOWHUNTER

    BOWHUNTER Gender: Attack Chopper

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    Soy is for fags. end of story
     
  10. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    look at the type of guys in mma who are vegans... jake shields and jon fitch they arnt very alpha and kinda got smashed bad when they went full vegan
     
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  11. PubliusVentidius

    PubliusVentidius Galore Bofando is the GOAT crew

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    Phytoestrogens can be both estrogenic and anti-estrogenic, it depends from the type, to which estrogen receptor they bind, what biological feedback loop they initiate, etc. For example agnus castus contains high levels of phytoestrogens yet it's used with success as an anti-estrogenic by women with PMS.
    Also they very mildly mimic the effect of actual estrogens (the potency of the strongest phytoestrogen is only 0.001 the potency of your strongest endogenous estrogen Estradiol, let that sink in) that's why It's ironic when people are afraid of phytoestrogens in plants and then stuff their faces with milk and proteins derived from milk which contains actual estrogens (it's estimated that about 80% of the estrogens we get from our diet is from milk and dairy) and a nasty cocktail of other stuff (IGF-1, antibiotics, etc).
    The problem I have with soy is not the bs antiandrogenic effect a lot of insecure sheeple think it has, it's that it has a foul taste imo, I mean the bean by itself is alright but soy milk was one of the few foods I had to throw away because the taste was just <{clintugh}>.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  12. Bluesbreaker

    Bluesbreaker Brown Belt

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    Did they? Or were they getting old and now they've sqeezed a few more good years out of their bodies?
     
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  13. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    Here's an interesting anecdote. I been vegan for 2.5 years. Last 6 months I been lazy and relying heavily on soy protein based foods. Just got bloodwork and estradiol was 20. Total Testosterone was also a bit lower than usual too but that could be bc I had a xl coffee w sugar an hour before blood was drawn.
     

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