Why are the omoplata and gogoplata rarely successful in MMA?

[AndrewSky94]

Complete grappling n00b here, just wondering if you experienced guys could give me an answer.

I know the omoplata is often used to take people's backs/standup, but why does no one ever get subbed with it?

 

[Mike Piekarski]

The move is a higher percentage sweep then it is a submission. The details of the move are very intricate and when you miss a detail it makes the submission either hard to finish or easy for them to escape. When I use the omoplata I try to submit them but I'll take the sweep, which like I said happens more often.

 

[sanchezero]

the omoplata requires a lot of movement by the attacker which offers the defender lots of opportunities for escape.

the gogoplata is just stupid.

 

[Drew Foster]

Complete grappling n00b here, just wondering if you experienced guys could give me an answer.

I know the omoplata is often used to take people's backs/standup, but why does no one ever get subbed with it?

Well they are both pretty rare in pure grappling with and without the gi as well. The Gogoplata is more common in no-gi grappling, and the Omoplata is more common in gi grappling.

The reason the Omoplata is so difficult to finish is because it's very hard to control the other person's hips and/or keep them flat so that you can lean forward, torquing the trapped arm's shoulder. It's easier in the gi, because you have all that clothing to grab. There are several schools of thought on how to submit once you have the Omoplata locked in place, but they're all difficult against good opponents, especially in MMA. Even grapplers who are well-known for their Omoplatas often just use it to sweep, attack the legs, or take the back. I think the Omoplata is super-under-utilized in MMA. It allows you to control them, it gives them something to worry about, you can sweep to get on top or take their back, and it's basically impossible for them to hit you.

I hope I'm answering your question good enough so far.... :icon_neut

As for the Gogo, there are a few basic reasons it's rare. A lot of people simply don't have the flexibility to pull it off. Now, there are ways to do it that don't involve you needing quite as much hip flexibility, but a lot of people don't practice those ways or any ways for that matter because ultimately....... there are just simpler and more effective options for finishing a fight from the bottom. This is not a knock against the Gogo or anyone that is good/great at it, but it's just a high risk/high reward move. Even if you watch BJ/GSP 1, BJ has it locked in pretty tight and even pulls down on the head, and GSP is able to press the foot down enough to get the shin off his throat.

Another reason (and some may disagree with me) is that blood chokes or blood and air are almost always going to be better options than air chokes alone, which is what the Gogoplata is.

 

[AndrewSky94]

cool, thanks for the info guys

 

[MatrixMA]

On the Gogoplata

From Elvis to Aoki: The History of the Gogoplata in MMA -- MMA Fighting

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Since you're a self-professed grappling n00b, I'll try to explain this with as little technical detail as possible. Both can work, but require some combination of passivity or poor defense by the victim, and high levels of skill/control by the attacker, as well as flexibility in the case of the gogoplata.

With the Gogoplata you'll frequently see someone just yank their trapped arm out, or turn a bit to relieve the pressure. Also, good defensive positioning within the guard can negate the attempt itself.

The omoplata, on the other hand, does get used in MMA (not enough imo), but both in MMA and pure grappling it's more often a sweep. In order to finish someone, you have to get them flattented out, or else they can roll to escape as a last resort, and sometimes that can be done even if they are flattened. If they recognize it in time, there are a number of escapes, and it takes someone who is really skilled at it to get a submission with the omoplata.

The good thing about the omoplata is that if the person applying it is thinking ahead, it's a very good transitional move. First of all there are transitions to things like the armbar, triangle, and toe hold, which are all much higher percentage submission finishes. Second of all, many of the escapes (assuming the attacker is on his game) result in a sacrifice of position. So if you roll to escape you just got swept, and that's good enough. So you force them to defend by letting you get top position. Of course you'd rather give up position than get submitted, so that's what often happens. As a result, an omoplata is frequently a sweep rather than a sub at the high levels, and most guys in the UFC are generally pretty good grapplers.

 

[kesagatame]

the omoplata requires a lot of movement by the attacker which offers the defender lots of opportunities for escape.

the gogoplata is just stupid.

now why would you say the gogoplata is stupid?
if you are in mount , and your opponent is giving you a hard time, holding your wrists etc. (or you feel like a submission is more your style), the gogoplata is an extremely effective submission, just whip you leg around the shoulder and in front of the throat, pull their head up, forcing their throat into your shin.

that doesn't sound stupid, that sounds like an extra weapon in your arsenal for mount, and an easy one to pull of if you practice it right. not to mention one of the shittiest ways for someone to get tapped out.

however is not a very good submission from guard in an MMA match

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

the gogoplata is an extremely effective submission, just whip you leg around the shoulder and in front of the throat, pull their head up, forcing their throat into your shin.

It's a little more challenging than that. Most of the time when I attempt that, I end up with a modified shoulder lock rather than a choke. It's not like you just swing your leg over their head and bam, choke. Unless they have no defensive sense. You have to be pretty good at the choke to get it.

 

[kesagatame]

It's a little more challenging than that. Most of the time when I attempt that, I end up with a modified shoulder lock rather than a choke. It's not like you just swing your leg over their head and bam, choke. Unless they have no defensive sense. You have to be pretty good at the choke to get it.

which is why i said practice. if you don't put the time into a submission, your chances of pulling it off are slim

Ive been working the gogoplata really hard into my game the past 2 months, having it be my main focus ( because I was terrible at it) and now its just as successful as my triangle or juji

 

[Bobbybackpack]

the omoplata requires a lot of movement by the attacker which offers the defender lots of opportunities for escape.

the gogoplata is just stupid.

It worked on Takaniri Gomi

 

[KikoJones]

Sometimes from an Arm Bar I'll switch arms, post, slide my shin under their chin then sit on their chest to finish the gogoplata. Not something I do regularly but when just screwing around.

 

[mataleaos]

The gogoplata is arguably a flexibility based position and often successful gogoplatas rely more on the other person making a mistake than you being super awesome. Submissions initiated and completed from the guard in general are on the decline in MMA. Fighters on top have good submission defense in 2017. I think the most successful spot for gogoplatas in MMA would probably be people hitting the monoplata position when someone turns in to get on a single leg or to defend a guard pass. And then the top fighter could throw their foot around the face from the monoplata position. But I don't think I've seen that done in MMA before.It would be much higher percentage than trying it from guard.

As far as omoplatas I don't know that they aren't successful. It depends how you measure success. There aren't many finished but that's also true in grappling. The omoplata works best as a control point and a way to sweep the opponent and transition to other spots. In that regard I see the omoplata work well in MMA when I see it applied. Instead of looking at the number of omoplata finishes or even the number of omoplata sweeps I would like to know the percentage of omoplata attempts that lead to a successful sweep or transition versus omoplata attempts that lead nowhere.

And even if it led nowhere I might be tempted to say that's not a failure. The position itself keep the opponent's weight off of you and they are unable to strike you with any significance if you have the omoplata position. So if you're on bottom and you get the omoplata position and simply keep someone there for 30 seconds I think that's better than having them in front of your hips where they can strike you and do damage or freely work to pass without freeing their arm first.

The best submissions are always strong positions first and foremost. The fact that they can make people tap out or go to sleep is just icing on the cake.