Why are Prog Rock and Prog Metal so different?

[Crimson Glory]

This may seem like a stupid question, "duh, because ones Rock and ones Metal" but, that doesn't really answer it...

I'm a big fan of Prog Metal... it's probably my favorite genre, so naturally, it would make sense for me to be a big fan of Prog Rock too right? Wrong.

Unlike Hard Rock and Traditional Heavy Metal, I feel like Prog Rock and Prog Metal have very little in common. The latter wouldn't exist without the former(naturally) yet even though one is basically just an offshoot, in a Metal context, of the other(that's where Prog Metal comes from, again, duh), it seems like Prog Rock is so far removed from it's Metal counterpart that I wouldn't even say they're musically related by much.

Petrucci(Dream Theater) Jennings(Haken) and so many other Progressive Metal musicians talk about their love of 70's and 80's Prog Rock and how it influenced their music, yet, besides the use odd time signatures, exotic scales and a few other elements, it seems like there's very little that you can point too that was taken from Prog Rock to develop Prog Metal.

When you look at the early Prog Metal bands of the 80's like Queensryche, Fates Warning, Dream Theater, Crimson Glory, Savatage, etc you'd think, given the infantile stage that the genre was in, that there'd be alot of overlap, but these guys weren't really that different sounding from traditional Metal bands as they were still centered around an "Operatic", (although some deviated from this), singer, hard hitting riffs etc...

Anyone have any ideas? @LuciferAlpha, I'd really like to hear your opinion on this.

 

[Lucifer Alpha]

I got nothing, so I'll just say that my favorite bands typically straddle the line between prog rock and metal. The best of both worlds.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

How do you tell the difference between any of those two with Thash, groove metal, melodic death metal? All I know is that they are all heavier than glam metal which is good too.

 

[ArchGoat]

How do you tell the difference between any of those two with Thash, groove metal, melodic death metal? All I know is that they are all heavier than glam metal which is good too.

I can tell just by the guitar riffs what style it is....Thrash has a certain sound to it that my ears pick up on right away very different from Melodic Death

 

[ArchGoat]

Thrash




Melodic Death....the thing about Melo Death is its muh more varied both in style and Vocals sometimes you have screamy vocals sometimes you have the usual death growls.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Then what about groove metal?

 

[ArchGoat]

Then what about groove metal?

This is the one genre I'm not that experienced in...I couldn't name any groove metal bands to save my life. People consider DevilDriver groove metal so I guess that's one.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

This is the one genre I'm not that experienced in...I couldn't name any groove metal bands to save my life. People consider DevilDriver groove metal so I guess that's one.

Apparently Pantera is a groove metal band or at least have some groove metal songs like this one

 

[JSN]

OG prog = GOAT prog

 

[Crimson Glory]

How do you tell the difference between any of those two with Thash, groove metal, melodic death metal? All I know is that they are all heavier than glam metal which is good too.

Like ArchGoat said, it's pretty clear to me, judging by the guitar tone, the vocals, sometimes the tempo, the riff style, the solos, the subject matter(although Thrash/Death/Black Metal can sometimes have similar lyrics and album art), etc etc. When you listen too enough of each, it becomes quite clear what's what, even when you look at much more closely related style of metal, like say Blackened Death Metal and straight up Death Metal and/or Black Metal(could be the vocal style, or the riffs or something else) or Technical Death Metal and regular Death Metal(this is usually just because of the complexity involved, Tech Death is often more treble sounding, which make good use of the g, b and high e strings, whereas something like Cannibal Corpse tune WAY down and play the bulk of their songs on the bass, the low e, a and d strings), it's pretty clear by the things I mentioned, they all have their own tendencies or a fusion of tendencies if it's a hybrid genre.

 

[Crimson Glory]

Just had a thought... it's probably because Prog Rock, generally makes a wider use of instruments and odd sounds and is much more experimental or avant garde than Prog Metal... Prog Metal is still a very unique genre that uses more than just vocal, guitars, bass and drums, but it's still Metal, which while it is a VERY diverse genre, still has the mandatory distorted guitar sound that defines the genre. It's not Metal without an atleast somewhat overdriven guitar.

I've always looked at Prog Metal as the most unique and "open" style of Metal, because you can literally have clean, distorted or other styles of vocals, use any scale, use keyboards(and all the unique sounds that come with that), incorporate Jazz, Techno, Middle Eastern/Asian Music, etc, while most defined genres(like Thrash for example) are sort of stuck in their ways, a canonical sound.

 

[VuvuzelaBzz]

I'd say it's because Prog Metal's roots are in Metal more so than they are in Prog Rock, which is why Prog bands that walk the Rock / Metal line tend to exhibit more of a Prog Rock influence than bands like Dream Theater. They were labelled as Progressive not because they were influenced strongly by Prog Rock, but purely due to the experimental song structures, time signatures etc.

 

[JSN]

I'd say it's because Prog *Metal's *roots are in Metal more so than they are in Prog Rock, which is why Prog bands that walk the Rock / Metal line tend to exhibit more of a Prog Rock influence than bands like Dream Theater. They were labelled as Progressive not because they were influenced strongly by Prog Rock, but purely due to the experimental song structures, time signatures etc.

*metöl *rüts

 

[Jack Reacheround]

In what ways would you say they are different? I mean, other than the obvious. Both take ideas and keep expanding on them so that they don't really resolve into a traditional verse, chorus arrangement. I would say the biggest difference I notice is that prof rock tends to focus more on guitar solos and other kinds of vamps with no lyrics, whereas prof metal will have lyrics over the latter parts of the song which tend to be more structured instead of just jam sessions in which everyone kind of improvises.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Well tradtional metal is quite different to prog so when you mix the two it's quite different to just prog. Though if you listen to the most recent Opeth and Mastodon stuff it's really just prog rock, or pretty fucking close to it.