Why are leg locks so effective in high level jiu jitsu right now?

[AZ103]

Theyve been the new hotness for a while right? Why? Are the legs just that easily accessible for attack?

Im a wrestler still learning the meta game and even positions in jiu jistu. Very green. Just curious, not interested in learning them myself. I find it boring and no leg locks as a white belt anyways.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Because they are extremely effective in a pure grappling context?

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Theyve been the new hotness for a while right? Why? Are the legs just that easily accessible for attack?

Im a wrestler still learning the meta game and even positions in jiu jistu. Very green. Just curious, not interested in learning them myself. I find it boring and no leg locks as a white belt anyways.

a flood of innovation has occurred in the leglock game over the last few years, and so quick victories can occur when one opponent isn't as familiar with the newer techniques. Another way to look at it is that people are integrating low body attacks with standard mid and upper body attacks, so if an opponent isn't training to properly defend his lower body then he is wide open to somebody who is training to attack it.

 

[nefti]

In reguards to dds and craig jones:
There has been a fundamental change in how leg locks are inplemented and used. Before it was more of a sramble submission. Now it is a guard attack, meaning the submission is being thrown with the same control and defensive safety like other subs from guards.

Thats what truely changed, they "guardified" leg locks. Now they have more control and safety when throwing leg attacks.

 

[yetanother]

Theyve been the new hotness for a while right? Why? Are the legs just that easily accessible for attack?

Im a wrestler still learning the meta game and even positions in jiu jistu. Very green. Just curious, not interested in learning them myself. I find it boring and no leg locks as a white belt anyways.

/

In no-gi heel hooks are good both because the options available from the guard are generally not very good, and they offer a super easy way to submit someone who is not familiar with them.
Heel hooks are also a big advantage over gi players who aren't familiar with them.

 

[KikoJones]

For the longest time Leg Locks were frowned upon and viewed as ungentlemanly. Today they're all the rage.

 

[mataleaos]

Theyve been the new hotness for a while right? Why? Are the legs just that easily accessible for attack?

Im a wrestler still learning the meta game and even positions in jiu jistu. Very green. Just curious, not interested in learning them myself. I find it boring and no leg locks as a white belt anyways.

Advancements in technique have made it so they can now be done in a way that controls the opponent much better than before, as well as in a way that creates more powerful breaks. The saddle/411/honeyhole/cross ashi (whatever you want to call it) has become a super dominant position. And the new school way of doing inverted heel hooks probably makes them the most powerful joint lock in the game.

And then yes you're right. The legs are very easy to get to from the top or the bottom. They can be gotten to without having to sweep on bottom and without having to pass guard on the top. Anything that skips the positional hierarchy tends to stick around a lot. The berimbolo was hot before because it skipped over the need to sweep and pass. You could go straight from guard to the back. The darce choke became popular before that when it let you submit your opponent without having to fully pass the guard.

So anything that lets you submit someone or get close to a submission without having to go through the traditional steps is usually something that gets to be popular.

 

[mataleaos]

In reguards to dds and craig jones:
There has been a fundamental change in how leg locks are inplemented and used. Before it was more of a sramble submission. Now it is a guard attack, meaning the submission is being thrown with the same control and defensive safety like other subs from guards.

Thats what truely changed, they "guardified" leg locks. Now they have more control and safety when throwing leg attacks.

That's a really good point. I was recently thinking a lot of saddle entries almost look and feel like an inside-out berimbolo attempt. That 'kani basami' style saddle entry is sort of becoming its own guard. Or the equivalent of whatever you'd call shooting a triangle from guard.

People are also mixing up high and low attacks very well. I see a lot of people jumping from chokes or kimura grip attacks down to leg atacks, and vice versa.

 

[Quebec Nick]

For the longest time Leg Locks were frowned upon and viewed as ungentlemanly. Today they're all the rage.

Kind of suck that the Gracies that made the IBJJF were the ones that sucked at leg locks

 

[Quebec Nick]

That's a really good point. I was recently thinking a lot of saddle entries almost look and feel like an inside-out berimbolo attempt. That 'kani basami' style saddle entry is sort of becoming its own guard. Or the equivalent of whatever you'd call shooting a triangle from guard.

If you don't care about the point system, I consider that I passed the guard if I manage to go to 411 / saddle / inside ashi garami position. It's as good if not better than having side control.

There's really good entries (or guard passes if you see it my way) against half guard and open guards like DLR, RDLR, single X. It keeps everybody honest when a simple leg drag or backstep from the other guy can get you in that much trouble.

 

[mataleaos]

If you don't care about the point system, I consider that I passed the guard if I manage to go to 411 / saddle / inside ashi garami position. It's as good if not better than having side control.

There's really good entries (or guard passes if you see it my way) against half guard and open guards like DLR, RDLR, single X. It keeps everybody honest when a simple leg drag or backstep from the other guy can get you in that much trouble.

Yeah to me the only things I'd rather have than the saddle would be the back with an arm trapped or some type of front head-and-arm (I love arm-in guillotines and brabos). But if I have a saddle with good double leg control then I think the finish should be almost a given. I feel really stupid if I have both legs scooped up and can't finish either a leg lace or especially an inverted hh.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Yeah to me the only things I'd rather have than the saddle would be the back with an arm trapped or some type of front head-and-arm (I love arm-in guillotines and brabos). But if I have a saddle with good double leg control then I think the finish should be almost a given. I feel really stupid if I have both legs scooped up and can't finish either a leg lace or especially an inverted hh.

Even if you don't do heel hooks (some gyms hate them) you're still very dangerous with ankle locks or switching to kneebars while they defend.

I can do heel hooks at the gym, but I've selected only 5-6 guys that I do them to because, the others don't have the knowledge and I'm afraid that they will hurt themselves. But anybody who tries one on me are automatically in the HH club.

 

[winterbike]

Advancements in technique have made it so they can now be done in a way that controls the opponent much better than before, as well as in a way that creates more powerful breaks. The saddle/411/honeyhole/cross ashi (whatever you want to call it) has become a super dominant position. And the new school way of doing inverted heel hooks probably makes them the most powerful joint lock in the game.

And then yes you're right. The legs are very easy to get to from the top or the bottom. They can be gotten to without having to sweep on bottom and without having to pass guard on the top. Anything that skips the positional hierarchy tends to stick around a lot. The berimbolo was hot before because it skipped over the need to sweep and pass. You could go straight from guard to the back. The darce choke became popular before that when it let you submit your opponent without having to fully pass the guard.

So anything that lets you submit someone or get close to a submission without having to go through the traditional steps is usually something that gets to be popular.

I think what's going on right now is a rebalancing of the basics for no gi. Bypassing the traditional steps is always fun, but I think they simply didn't work as well without a gi. Without the friction and the grips, the traditional pass-control-sub sequence isn't as effective, while leglocks (and a lot of the DDS stuff right now, like back control and front headlocks) can give you good reliable control on your opponent.

 

[yetanother]

That's a really good point. I was recently thinking a lot of saddle entries almost look and feel like an inside-out berimbolo attempt. T

Rafa puts his own legs into reaps to spin for the back.

 

[mataleaos]

I think what's going on right now is a rebalancing of the basics for no gi. Bypassing the traditional steps is always fun, but I think they simply didn't work as well without a gi. Without the friction and the grips, the traditional pass-control-sub sequence isn't as effective, while leglocks (and a lot of the DDS stuff right now, like back control and front headlocks) can give you good reliable control on your opponent.

I never thought about it that way but I like that. I definitely agree. Robert Drysdale (among others) was talking about this after he won ADCC. Talking about how the pass-> control method isn't worth as much time or energy in no gi as using holds that let you control or submit to open up your positional advances. I think it's getting more refined right now and better understood by more people.

 

[Alech33]

Legs go from 0 to 100 real quick. If you're caught in an arm bar you may tough it out for a little while, when someone hooks a heel you don't have time

 

[Uchi Mata]

Many even among the elite of grappling don't have a good understanding of leg entanglement positioning, and so they're not very good (relative to guys like the DDS) at recognizing and preventing the entries into those entanglements, or neutralizing the attacker's positioning when the entanglements do occur. When you see guys who know how to stop the entries (Tanquinho vs. Eddie Cummings is a great example of this) or how to neutralize the attacking potential of the positions (Vinny vs. Gordon Ryan is a good example here) they become much less effective.

Like anything else, if you can't defend the position trying to defend the sub is a long shot, and for a long time no one really put a lot of thought into the positioning that set up leg locks. So once guys did, once they developed a deep system for getting to strong leg entanglements where they could maintain control and hunt for various finishes in a systematic way, they started murdering people. It would be like if everyone just let you get to kimura control because they didn't recognize the setups. Well, once you have the arm, *some* finish is probably going to come. You have to defend the entry into the attacking platform. High level guys are really only starting to do that effectively with the leg game in the last few years.

 

[mataleaos]

Many even among the elite of grappling don't have a good understanding of leg entanglement positioning, and so they're not very good (relative to guys like the DDS) at recognizing and preventing the entries into those entanglements, or neutralizing the attacker's positioning when the entanglements do occur. When you see guys who know how to stop the entries (Tanquinho vs. Eddie Cummings is a great example of this) or how to neutralize the attacking potential of the positions (Vinny vs. Gordon Ryan is a good example here) they become much less effective.

Like anything else, if you can't defend the position trying to defend the sub is a long shot, and for a long time no one really put a lot of thought into the positioning that set up leg locks. So once guys did, once they developed a deep system for getting to strong leg entanglements where they could maintain control and hunt for various finishes in a systematic way, they started murdering people. It would be like if everyone just let you get to kimura control because they didn't recognize the setups. Well, once you have the arm, *some* finish is probably going to come. You have to defend the entry into the attacking platform. High level guys are really only starting to do that effectively with the leg game in the last few years.

Great post. In some ways everyone is catching up but in some ways the gap is still widening. The high level leg guys are still coming up with tons of new details even still. the basics stay the same I guess (see Eddie Cummings dvd) but I don’t think there’s been another time in the art where there’s such a large knowledge gap in one particular area.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

/

In no-gi heel hooks are good both because the options available from the guard are generally not very good, and they offer a super easy way to submit someone who is not familiar with them.
Heel hooks are also a big advantage over gi players who aren't familiar with them.

i've lately been finding a ton of success playing the modern leglock positions in the gi, just without heel hook finishes. fundamentally, those leg positions are so effective because they are very strong sweeps and control points. and the truth is that, despite the hype, most aren't even reaping positions. for example, the outside ashi "leg press" maneuver that eddie cummings shows on his dvd is a ridiculously high percentage sweep, and chains well off standard Gi DLR engagements.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Many even among the elite of grappling don't have a good understanding of leg entanglement positioning, and so they're not very good (relative to guys like the DDS) at recognizing and preventing the entries into those entanglements, or neutralizing the attacker's positioning when the entanglements do occur. When you see guys who know how to stop the entries (Tanquinho vs. Eddie Cummings is a great example of this) or how to neutralize the attacking potential of the positions (Vinny vs. Gordon Ryan is a good example here) they become much less effective.

Like anything else, if you can't defend the position trying to defend the sub is a long shot, and for a long time no one really put a lot of thought into the positioning that set up leg locks. So once guys did, once they developed a deep system for getting to strong leg entanglements where they could maintain control and hunt for various finishes in a systematic way, they started murdering people. It would be like if everyone just let you get to kimura control because they didn't recognize the setups. Well, once you have the arm, *some* finish is probably going to come. You have to defend the entry into the attacking platform. High level guys are really only starting to do that effectively with the leg game in the last few years.

after watching eddie cummings' dvd, its easy to see that these modern leglock positions are analogous to something as fundamental as closed guard. you put an undertrained opponent in your closed guard and you can practically choose how you want to submit him. however, eventually you understand how the guard works and get to the point where you can stay safe and escape, but the whole time you recognize that you're always one step away from being submitted. in particular, you recognize that losing little positional battles (e.g. basing one hand on the mat) will lead to big trouble. similarly, the savvy closed guard player will gradually learn how to refine the fundamental mechanics of his guard (controlling posture, creating angles, etc.) so that his attacks are more effective.