Who's the 3rd GOAT behind Jordan and LeBron?

gspieler said:
What's the case for Lebron being better than MJ?
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I don't subscribe to it, but he's played a little bit longer and has now racked up better career numbers outside of straight up scoring, which he'll overtake Jordan in next season. Many of his advanced stats have caught/surpassed Jordan as well. Also has more Finals appearances, fewer first round exits, etc. Again. I don't agree with this argument. Some also argue that he has had more overall value because of his versatility, but I think they ignore that Lebron stopped playing defense except in the big moments about 5 or 6 years ago. Jordan was just a relentless monster on both ends his whole career.

Edit: I should add that there is a strong argument that the game is much better today than it was in the 90's as well. And while casuals scoff, it's unquestionably true teams are deeper, more versatile and better today than they were then. Obviously the rules have a lot to do with style of play, but God knows the game is more pleasant to watch now as well. What we lost were the true 1 on 1, best vs. best match ups of the iso era. But we also get to see an era where the 'super complex' triangle offense that dominated that era is a simplistic relic, so I'll take this. I personally don't think the improvement from 90's to here really compares to the difference between the 90's and the pre-merger era, but it definitely exists.
 
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gspieler said:
If Kareem existed in any other decade since the 50's, the discrepancy between him and the next best player wouldnt be that great. 60's-Russel, 80's-Bird, 90's-Hakeem, 2000's-Lebron, etc.
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Yeah, that was one of my points in the initial post where I undermined Kareem's case for #2, but he did play in the 70's and did completely dominate them, so well done Kareem.
 
iwhoopedbatman said:
I don't subscribe to it, but he's played a little bit longer and has now racked up better career numbers outside of straight up scoring, which he'll overtake Jordan in next season. Many of his advanced stats have caught/surpassed Jordan as well. Also has more Finals appearances, fewer first round exits, etc. Again. I don't agree with this argument. Some also argue that he has had more overall value because of his versatility, but I think they ignore that Lebron stopped playing defense except in the big moments about 5 or 6 years ago. Jordan was just a relentless monster on both ends his whole career.
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Yeah, I suppose if you look at the stats at just the right angle, and completely disregard context and intangibles, there is a case for Lebron. But the same rationale that would dictate Lebron is the GOAT would have a guy like Kareem eclipsing them both. The only real argument that has Lebron standing alone as GOAT would essentially be the "new breed" argument.
 
gspieler said:
Yeah, I suppose if you look at the stats at just the right angle, and completely disregard context and intangibles, there is a case for Lebron. But the same rationale that would dictate Lebron is the GOAT would have a guy like Kareem eclipsing them both. The only real argument that has Lebron standing alone as GOAT would essentially be the "new breed" argument.
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Lol. I knew I should have just waited. I added a section on improved era in that post.
 
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Michael Jordan

In that order
 
syct23 said:
Weak division... LeBron has played in within his career.

Who has he actually had to beat to get to the championships.? Only real threat were the Celtics and he couldn't beat them until he left to Miami to get some help.
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Jordan played against a weaker division most of his career and played in an expansion league where everyone was cans.
 
iirc like 5 years ago I foresaw LeBitch eventually ending up at #2

My top 3, based on what I've seen with my own eyes, are:

MJ
LeBrick
Hakeem

Take any 2 of those 3, put them on the same team, and they besmirch any team in NBA history
 
faustian said:
iirc like 5 years ago I foresaw LeBitch eventually ending up at #2

My top 3, based on what I've seen with my own eyes, are:

MJ
LeBrick
Hakeem

Take any 2 of those 3, put them on the same team, and they besmirch any team in NBA history
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As I recall, you were making the argument he was already there at the time, based on his peak prime. Didn't he come out #2 with the science experiment?
 
iwhoopedbatman said:
As I recall, you were making the argument he was already there at the time, based on his peak prime.
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I think I had him behind Jabbar but asserted that he'd surpass Jabbar eventually
 
Of course, of all my generic NBA threads to make it through the software change, my actual substantive threads (NBA Science Thread, Top 50 PFs) got lost to bolivian
 
faustian said:
Of course, of all my generic NBA threads to make it through the software change, my actual substantive threads (NBA Science Thread, Top 50 PFs) got lost to bolivian
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Fucking lazy ass mods. We only have like 3 dozen in this section. SMH.
 
faustian said:
iirc like 5 years ago I foresaw LeBitch eventually ending up at #2

My top 3, based on what I've seen with my own eyes, are:

MJ
LeBrick
Hakeem

Take any 2 of those 3, put them on the same team, and they besmirch any team in NBA history
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You could replace Lebrick with several other names, and you statement would still (probably) be true. Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Bird, Shaq, etc.

Just curious; what's the basis for argument that Lebron is top 3 all time, at this point?
 
gspieler said:
You could replace Lebrick with several other names, and you statement would still (probably) be true. Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Bird, Shaq, etc.

Just curious; what's the basis for argument that Lebron is top 3 all time, at this point?
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Start by listing all the other players in NBA history who've grabbed 4 MVPs and 3 FMVPs

Magic? Nope
Kareem? Nope
Wilt? Nope
Bird? Nope
Shaq? Nope

And LeBron's career isn't even over yet. Realistically, he should be awarded another MVP this season (should've been MVP in 2011 as well but voters literally made their minds up to blackball him before the first game of the season was played)

Then there's the individual stats, both raw boxscore and advanced, where LeBron destroys everyone not named Michael Jordan
 
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