Who uses the coyote guard?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by thugpoet, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. georgegreece

    georgegreece (◕‿◕)♡

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,753
    Likes Received:
    754
    Location:
    Otaku fields
    The vids were way off.
     
  2. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    3,062
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    I don't see a reason to even play a knee shield that can be leg weaved. If you have a high knee shield can can't leg weave because the knee is supported with the frame, if you have a tight lock knee shield the leg weave won't do anything because he won't be able to extract the leg.
     
  3. Daz2300

    Daz2300 White Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    39
    Way off what?? They both show the Knee Torque done from positions not involving knee shield half to illustrate the under hook and torque is what we're specifically talking about.
     
  4. Daz2300

    Daz2300 White Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    39
    i tend to switch between high with elbow supporting and locked low knee shield a lot depending what they're doing. The weave & knee cut is probably most peoples go to knee shield pass so sometimes guys with good pressure force it or i get caught in between high and low. These are the leg weave counters i use,

    Gi/Nogi - Put your back flat and rotate your hips towards the weaving shoulder using your bottom foot on the mat for leverage. This like a little forward shrimp off the bottom foot as you open your knee towards the ceiling when your hips turn. It will disrupt his shoulder pressure and set him back square with you again so you can reset your shield.

    Gi/Nogi - Do a Twist Sweep(Giggler/John Wayne) variation by controlling the wrist of the weaving arm. You must get yourself in perpendicular to them by underhooking their free leg or pulling yourself in with a pants grip on the inside of that knee. Now you’ll bring the weaved knee to you then do a hard leg press motion which will off-balance them as the inside of their elbow is stuck on your leg with their wrist trapped. That initial momentum and lifting with the pant grip or under hook on the free leg lets you use your bottom leg to do the Twist Sweep. You come up already in a bicep slicer position if you’re mean ;-)

    Gi - Insert your framing hand supporting the shield thumb down in the collar as he starts to weave. As he collapses the shield you’ll pull the collar across to the same side hard and feed his head in to the hole with your forearm for a nasty loop choke. Your free hand will go under the choking arm by your elbow with fingers straight and wrist rigid. You finish by dropping the bottom elbow down as you raise the other elbow up, kind of a circular motion with folded arms. Thumb down and moving the collar across initially are key to getting it to work.
     
    thugpoet and Bubblun like this.
  5. Daz2300

    Daz2300 White Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    39
    That's interesting you use RDLR to set it up, Quebec Nick made a very good point that the guys you train with will know exactly what you want and rarely let you just sit up in to an underhook from a knee shield. Interesting too that he uses Deep Half, SLX and a bunch of other guards to get their rather than knee shield.

    For me i don't really do the standard knee shield/kick through/shoot under hook sequence either. I pretty much spend most my time from a high or low knee shield trying to track the arm that does the leg weave etc and get wrist control with either hand or 2-on-1 that arm. As soon as i get this if they're low and pressuring in i Twist Sweep, if they're high or pull back and i still have the wrist i sit up and stick myself to them wth my free arm and let my weight on their collar or from me hugging them pull them back down in to a Twist Sweep. You can land with a near or far side under hook, ready to take the back, smash to 3/4 mount or lots of other great top half positions off the sweep if you're creative.

    My under hook in to Coyote then comes off them managing to defend and post versus the Twist Sweep or me losing the wrist as they pull the arm way back and leave a big space to shoot the under hook through as you sit up. From their i bump the forward and all the usual stuff you do after kicking through from a knee shield.

    If i have a locked low knee shield when they do the big cartoon flail away or pull their elbow back in to the ribs hard they're off balanced backwards. i'll throw in the odd Hip-Clamp/G-Roll sweep for a bit of a surprise attack then to try to impress the cool kids.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
    Bubblun likes this.
  6. Bubblun

    Bubblun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,345
    Likes Received:
    2,324


    An option from the man himself.
     
    thugpoet, Solidus Snake and Daz2300 like this.
  7. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,839
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    I think using knee torque when playing half guard and using a lockdown when playing half guard has more similarities with regards to procedures than one might think; in fact, you could say the way you use a lockdown effectively, itself involves torquing the knee this way or that.

    I think that's only natural though, since both are looking to get to and use the underhook, and if there are more effective methods of doing something, effective people will tend to converge on them, even if from different starting points.


    The whip down is a good way of recomposing a 'smashed half' and getting your underhook in. This is probably the most useful thing you can use a scorpion lock for (getting out of bad hg situations and getting your underhook in), and once you're there you're free to either keep it or switch the legs for your attack as desired.



    Bravo swept Royler Gracie three times in their match and it's a good case study on dealing with someone trying to smush you and getting to the staging points you need.


    (There is a lot of similarity between electric chair sweeps and the roll-under sweeps a lot of athletes like Faria or Leites use.)


    The reverse sit can be a tricky thing to deal with, since it pretty much automatically precludes most of the 'usual' ways of playing half-guard. It opens up some other avenues too however, specifically with regards to attacking the back, such as grabbing their far shoulder with a 100%/cow catcher/power half grip, and/or using a half butterfly hook behind the knee or in the thigh to enter into a leg ride.






    The elbow push escape is also an option.




    If the other guy is dogged about just staying low and keeping his arms tight, you can simply get a chin strap grip, or double wrist lock, or some other form of head control, and start hip heisting out, getting your feet back under you and reversing the situation into your own attack.

    [​IMG]








    (Incidentally, the funk roll specifically is also good when the other guy rides his free knee up high in half in order to launch strikes, like how Cormier often does in his fights.)


    In wrestling, one of the basic principles of winning chain sequences and other furballs, is getting to a better rooting than your opponent faster than your opponent, giving yourself superior structure/leverage for driving through and bowling them over. That is a big reason why i consider some of the more generally reliable half-guard reversals to involve getting up and getting behind your opponent, like shelfing the leg, stepping around into a leg ride/truck, or throwing them by.

    Another is that if you can realize greater ubiquity for a certain tactic, the more training time you can concentrate into that tactic, which translates into greater capability in application. So for example, if you are good in the dogfight situation, then it would be good if you had positional advancements from neutral and advancements from bottom that both participated in entries and finishes related to the dogfight situation.




















     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
    thugpoet, Bubblun and Solidus Snake like this.
  8. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    3,062
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    The seatbelt position Askren shows is different from the dog fight
     
  9. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,839
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    A whizzer is different from an overhook.
     
  10. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    3,062
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    How is a whizzer different?
     
  11. georgegreece

    georgegreece (◕‿◕)♡

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,753
    Likes Received:
    754
    Location:
    Otaku fields
    it's called a whizzer when you're off to the side
     
  12. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    3,062
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Dunno wikipedia things they are the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhook

    Anyway the seatbelt vs dogfight are different positions because you have a hooked leg in the dogfight which allows you to do a bunch of different things.
     

Share This Page