Which "legend" is more of a myth, Fedor or BJ?

[Rogerdraven]

HW is the one and only division that i see basically no improvements

Exactly. HW is much worse than it used to be.

1. half of the top 10 are guys from 10 years ago. Even in their late 30s and early 40s these guys are still relevant. That shouldn't be the case if new younger fighters had been built up in the past.

2. Guys like Black Beast are in the top 5 or 6. Watch his fight vs Travis Browne. The fact that either of those guys could get close to the top 10 at this point shows how much things have devolved.

3. Go back and watch some HW fights from 2003-2004. Guys like Fedor, Big Nog, Cro Cop, Barnett, Arlovski, etc and you will see how much those guys have slowed down. I was shocked at how fast Big Nog was and how good he was because it had been so long since I had seen his old fights. I was used to seeing old Nog who could barely move. If you could take all of the HWs and make them the same age, I have no doubt the old guys would smash the current crop (who are pretty old themselves being around 34-35).

 

[SoberAwakening]

Fedor. I was sorely disappointed when I heard all the hype about him when I first got into MMA and went back and watched some of his fights.

He was a very good fighter with some notable wins for sure, but a GOAT he is not.

 

[FrankFixer]

You young pups will find out for yourselves one day. Getting old sucks

 

[OneToeKO]

I agree TS. I'd lump can crusher kabob in there too.

 

[Rogerdraven]

You are right, Fedor refusing to adapt as a fighter played absolutely no part in him losing at all. It was just him getting old and how many fights he had. Same excuse for every Pride fighter that never had much success post Pride. Which would be fine and all if there weren't other Pride fighters from those eras that went on to have better careers because they actually adapted.

But, by all means please continue to be one of those fans who let's their feelings for a fighter make them unable to form an unbiased opinion on the matter.

It didn't. Fedor's problem wasn't that he needed to adapt, it was that he become more one dimensional. He used to do everything well; now he just wants to strike. And like the guy you are responding to said, he got old. Being 1 dimensional and having a worse chin, less speed, etc is going to make you much worse. If he fought as well rounded today as he used to be he would be doing better, but he still would be much worse than before because of losing physical abilities. This is the same stuff we have seen basically ever older fighter go through (if you have been following the sport from the beginning).

 

[Rogerdraven]

You young pups will find out for yourselves one day. Getting old sucks

No kidding. I'm 37 and eat healthy, haven't abused my body, etc. and I can feel myself slowing down. It takes longer to recover from workouts, I can't stay up all night and skip out on sleep without feeling it. If I push to hard on training I need a break. It's like night and day from how it was when I was 21, heck from how I was even at 30.

 

[Paynebringer]

The only noob is the blind die hard fans that live in a world where they think Fedor is GOAT because he beat up some part time fighters 20 years ago when MMA was brand new. Now he fignts rejected UFC fighters and gets STARCHED over and over while the true GOATS (Silva, GSP and JJ) are still relevant.

Mmmmmm, a point made even if it hurts....

 

[Tuf_guy]

It's actually embarrassing, "both haven't put on a recent performance....", well gee, I wonder why that may be?

Let's not play that game.
Royce just got a win by stoppage not long ago, and he was there since UFC 1.
No excuses for these younger "legends"

 

[Morning Star]

C. None of the Above.

 

[SteveColdStone]

People really don't understand that fighters fight on waaaay past their primes and the game evolves too. Not many guys are going to improve after being in wars and being out of their physical primes. Plus retiring and then coming back when their heart isn't really in it.

BJ and Fedor are legends and only somebody who is only discovering them now and judging them off their recent performances would say that they aren't legends. I personally don't think either fighter is the goat but to say they're not legends is just ridiculous. I fucking hate all these sherdog posters who don't know shit. Can't their computers or phones just explode or something so we don't have to have this crap?

I used to enjoy scrolling through this website but now my jimmies just get rustled by all the s here who don't know a thing. Been reading for years and whilst sherdog was never perfect, it has gone downhill badly. Kind of like MMA at the moment. You used to get crap for having a nooby join date but now I see people with 2016 and 2017 join dates who hopped on a McGregor train posting threads where they just write the same crap about fighters never being great, despite not being around at the time to see their primes.

My join date on this account is only 2015 but I like to think I know my stuff, and I have been a fan since I was 9 lol. I'm sure plenty of other people with similar join dates know MMA,, but with the recent surge in MMA becoming more mainstream a bunch of new fans jumped on board, and that's cool, but it pisses me off when they think they know everything. A bunch of these new fans are all over this forum and have made it annoying to read. I used to be able to check out this forum everyday and enjoy reading it for 30 mins or so, but not anymore. Even people with join dates from 10 years ago still don't understand fighting at all.

Yes I'm kinda mad.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Tyson is a myth. Conor would take him out in round one.

 

[TheComebackKid]

SMH at fans these days. Neither are myths..both are divisional GOATs. Show some damn respect.

 

[DocK]

They've both been overrated for ages but they're still legends.

 

[Codpiece]

Let's not play that game.
Royce just got a win by stoppage not long ago, and he was there since UFC 1.
No excuses for these younger "legends"

Depends who Royce beat. Penn could beat plenty of FWs too. Decor could still beat lots of active HWs.

 

[Shaddows]

Both guys have big cult like followings, but both havent put on a recent performance to warrant such praise.

Fedor apparently THE GOAT but gets stomped out within one round by UFC reject Matt Mitrione. Fans claim father time but Anderson Silva is two years older than Fedor and just soundley beat Derek Brunson (a young strong UFC killer) at 42 years old. Also went 5 rounds with the UFC MW champ and recently went 3 rounds with the LHW champ. Fedor looks like he is skating for Disney On Ice everytime he fights as of late.

BJ Penn getting dusted over and over again and hasnt won a fight since the cold war era. Dennis Siver dismantled him and Yair KOd him dead. Before that Diaz, Edgar and Macdonald spanked him over and over since 2010. Ouch.

So which legend is more of a myth? Im leaving towards nanny phidor.

your mom.
She is a myth...

 

[Based Akali]

It didn't. Fedor's problem wasn't that he needed to adapt, it was that he become more one dimensional. He used to do everything well; now he just wants to strike. And like the guy you are responding to said, he got old. Being 1 dimensional and having a worse chin, less speed, etc is going to make you much worse. If he fought as well rounded today as he used to be he would be doing better, but he still would be much worse than before because of losing physical abilities. This is the same stuff we have seen basically ever older fighter go through (if you have been following the sport from the beginning).

Becoming one dimensional is a failure to adapt to the fight game. The fact that Fedor would still be a well rounded fighter to this day just shows how great and ahead of his time he was. Which brings the question to light as to why people have to over rate his career instead of appreciating it. When people start blaming his losses to Bigfoot, Werdum, Henderson on age etc etc(even more so when he was fighting people that fought just as long as him) it makes me sad because it devalues just how far ahead of the game Fedor truly was, but he failed to adapt and and regressed as a fighter.

His chin now is terrible and I will agree that any fights in the last few years Fedor has looked terrible in it's because of age because that's true. In the past few years he's had no business being the cage. But, his losses to Bigfoot, Henderson, and Werdum weren't an age issue, it was the game catching up. You put the Fedor in the middle of his reign in the cage today and he's still a top five fighter. I can't say with confidence he'd be the champ, but he'd give the top of the division a run for their money.

 

[BoxingMMA]

At his actual best, Fedor was beating the best HW fighters the world had to offer, Nog, Cro Cop, and a bunch of lower tier but dangeours fighters under pride rules, such as coleman or randleman. Even past his prime, when he was more of a brawler, Fedor still fucked up Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers. His losses all came after his prime and even then it was clearly they were fights he tried to "zulu" his opponents and didnt take them very seriously. But the sting of defeats came after his prime./

At his best and in the most important battles of his career, BJ drew with Uno, lost to Pulver, lost to GSP and always felt more of a fighter who should have achieved much more than he did, he was also annoying as fuck and his bitch behavior after he got pummeled by GSP was disgraceful.

 

[TrueFightFan]

You are right, Fedor refusing to adapt as a fighter played absolutely no part in him losing at all. It was just him getting old and how many fights he had. Same excuse for every Pride fighter that never had much success post Pride. Which would be fine and all if there weren't other Pride fighters from those eras that went on to have better careers because they actually adapted.

But, by all means please continue to be one of those fans who let's their feelings for a fighter make them unable to form an unbiased opinion on the matter.

10 years in the best organization as an undefeated fighter doesn't require a pencil necked geek like you to come and speculate on adaptations to fighting styles BUT.... Here We Go! Fedor beat both Noguiera, Arlovski, Hunt and Sylvia in their primes and they all were either UFC champions or fought for UFC championships. But, I know... what have you done for me lately? We get old, we get slow.... is normal.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Well we found one of the crazy Penn fans lol.

BTW Dana never said GSP should be disqualified

All you have to do is look it up. There is actually a video of him saying it as it happened..."they caught Georges greasing."

 

[Based Akali]

10 years in the best organization as an undefeated fighter doesn't require a pencil necked geek like you to come and speculate on adaptations to fighting styles BUT.... Here We Go! Fedor beat both Noguiera, Arlovski, Hunt and Sylvia in their primes and they all were either UFC champions or fought for UFC championships. But, I know... what have you done for me lately? We get old, we get slow.... is normal.

Fans like you are the reason why people can't have unbiased logical discussion about fighters. "Omg he praised Fedor for being a fighter way ahead of his time, but it's such blasphemy that I have to attack him over the internet because he said Fedor didn't continue to grow as a fighter!"