Where do *YOU* think *OTHER* War Room regulars sit on the U.S political spectrum?

[Devout Pessimist]

I'm definitely on the Right

 

[Jack V Savage]

You mean the bet where my forecast turned out to be right on the money, and you made no forecast at all?

No, I mean the bet where you said that GDP growth would be negative for the full year last year, that there was no chance of a rate hike, and that there would be another round of easing. The thread is still available. You were wrong, and you asked nicely to be released from the consequences, claiming (bizarrely) to have misunderstood. I graciously accepted, though I expressed puzzlement at how the misunderstanding could have happened. And since then you've been making really creepy attacks on me.

 

[dissolved]

Left:
@Jack V Savage
@7437
@AnGrYcRoW
@ultramanhyata
@Falsedawn
@KONG-D'SNT-TAP
@Quipling
@Thames
@M3t4tr0n
@sloppypie

Center-Left:
@JDragon
@MicroBrew
@UpaLoompa
@Gandhi ?
@Rod1
@KILL KILL

Centrist/Moderate:
@Madmick
@panamaican
@ehtheist
@Zankou

Center-Right:
@sodapopinski
@lfd0311
@Bald1
@dontsnitch
@oldshadow
@LionExMachina
@TheComebackKid
@Cubo de Sangre

Right:
@CableandThanos
@glennrod
@In The Name Of
@ironwolf
@Rex Kwon Do
@Thurisaz
@Tropodan
@voxom
@Atheist

Libertarian:
@Greoric

I'm trying to figure out where to put you . . .

I think:

Centrist/Moderate: @Kafir-kun

Maybe Center-Right

But your designations looks fairly accurate.

 

[Greoric]

No, I mean the bet where you said that GDP growth would be negative for the full year last year, that there was no chance of a rate hike, and that there would be another round of easing. The thread is still available. You were wrong, and you asked nicely to be released from the consequences, claiming (bizarrely) to have misunderstood. I graciously accepted, though I expressed puzzlement at how the misunderstanding could have happened. And since then you've been making really creepy attacks on me.

The only thing that was off was my trajectory, and that's no disproval in economics. With regard to the rate hike, I said in the almost certain unlikelihood they raise rates we'll see an immediate crash.

By the way things are really heating up in the economy now that we're nine years into a recovery huh?

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Left:
@Jack V Savage
@7437
@AnGrYcRoW
@ultramanhyata
@Falsedawn
@KONG-D'SNT-TAP
@Quipling
@Thames
@M3t4tr0n
@sloppypie

Center-Left:
@JDragon
@MicroBrew
@UpaLoompa
@Gandhi ?
@Rod1
@KILL KILL

Centrist/Moderate:
@Madmick
@panamaican
@ehtheist
@Zankou

Center-Right:
@sodapopinski
@lfd0311
@Bald1
@dontsnitch
@oldshadow
@LionExMachina
@TheComebackKid
@Cubo de Sangre

Right:
@CableandThanos
@glennrod
@In The Name Of
@ironwolf
@Rex Kwon Do
@Thurisaz
@Tropodan
@voxom
@Atheist

Libertarian:
@Greoric

I always thought of myself as center leftish

 

[Possum Jenkins]

No it isn't. Because an anarcho-syndicalist society simply wouldn't enforce claims on capital ownership. It flows naturally from a lack of authority. Right-wing libertarianism requires active force to be used against transgressors of the order; it simply bars people who don't have defendable capital claims from any say in how that force is directed--that is, it's authoritarian.

Yeah, but an individual in an anarcho-syndicalist society who DOES try to claim ownership on capital would also be met with resistance. Transgressors to any social order are going to be shut down.

There are always going to be conflicts about resource allocation. Right-wing libertarianism answers those conflicts by saying that the ruling class has full power to implement its vision, as opposed to our current system, which allows everyone (excluding children and felons, to some extent) from having a say; or to left-wing anarchism, which basically says, "figure it out for yourselves."

The key difference is where force is exerted. RW libertarians would differ from neocons in that the latter fully use the state to exert its vision, while the former would only use it for contract enforcement and similar issues.

Naturally, the RW libertarian world would probably turn into an even worse hell than the neocon one, but the role of the state is so different that I think lumping them together isn't accurate.

In a society like ours with widespread liberal values, at least in aspiration, the compass is just a misleading recruiting tool for right-wing libertarianism. It defines, say, protections of worker rights as "authoritarian" and untrammeled domination of labor as "anti-authoritarian." It also uses "left and right" in a completely different way from the normal spectrum, which causes a lot of confusion.

No it doesn't.

Worker's issues- ranging from outright syndicalism to social democrat parties- are all on the negative part of the Y-axis.

The far positive side of this axis is where all the state authoritarians are (Stalin, Hitler, the current GOP). And of course, these are all hostile to labor to varying degrees.

But the difference isn't ideological. Lenin would have said he wanted what Chomsky wants; he'd just disagree about how to get it. I suppose that's another problem with the square.

But the differences in the "how" are so massive that putting them together would do them a disservice. I mean, workers had zero say over anything in the Soviet Union. How can you justify putting them right next to groups that want worker ownership AND management over society?

And of course, the very installation of a "vanguard party" that stifles opposition, controls speech, instills a worship of the state, etc., is so far removed from a left anarchist view that they just cannot be together.

In fact, I'd argue that the single-axis spectrum is a better propaganda tool against the left. By putting Bernie, Chomsky and Stalin on the same side, hysterical "slippery slope!" arguments can be made.

If the Bernibots take it too far, this'll become the USSR! Look at the diagram!

In a compass, a social democrat party or movement has to travel A LOT further to turn into North Korea or the Soviet Union.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The only thing that was off was my trajectory, and that's no disproval in economics.

The only thing that was off was that all of the things you said would happen didn't happen, and some of the things you said wouldn't happen did happen. The whole point of the bet was to avoid the weaseling that you've been doing. I do admit that I was wrong to think that forcing you to make a specific, testable prediction that would be shown false would cause you to re-evaluate your quack econ theories.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm trying to figure out where to put you . . .

I think:

Centrist/Moderate: @Kafir-kun

Maybe Center-Right

But your designations looks fairly accurate.

Center Right? I wonder why that is. I do hold some conservative ideas I guess.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

thats not a completely unfair definition, but I didn't mean that as derogatory to those I labeled as such.
They're more of a status quo folks without strong opinions right or left.

I don't think I'm a centrist then.

They don't follow libertarian logic in several key areas. Naturally, these things make them palatable with conventional Republicans, which is what they really are, despite their outsider pretenses.

You're saying the LP's social stances are practically Republican?

Because you almost always argue for right wing positions.

Right: Guns, Border Security, Not letting people with identity issues choose their bathrooms/shower rooms if the rest of us can't.
Left: End Prohibition, Pro-Choice, Gay Marriage, Environment, Police Brutality
Libertarian: Free Speech, Anti-War/Inteventionism, Anti Personal Income Tax

What else of consequence do I argue (other than logic, which isn't a partisan issue)?

If you haven't done it already, stop what you're doing now and attach your votes to this list of "Favorite WR posters", as compiled by JDragon:


@7437 Dunno
@2DUM2TAP Dunno but occasionally funny
@Adamant Dunno
@AnGrYcRoW Dunno
@Anung Un Rama Anti-Jack
@Arkain2K Right, but that's a total guess
@Atheist Just hates women
@bad seed Dunno
@Bald1 Dunno
@Banchan Dunno
@Bukowski82 Seems like a legit asshole
@CableandThanos Right
@CEROVFC Dunno
@Charles Manson Great user name
@Cmart Name just makes me think cheap consumer products
@colby25 Religious nut
@Cubo de Sangre Independent
@dontsnitch Easy to converse with
@ehtheist Dunno
@Falsedawn Left
@FinalFight Dunno
@Gandhi Left
@GearSolidMetal Dunno
@glennrod Religious
@Greoric Libertarian
@Gutter Chris Who?
@HendoRuaGOAT Right
@Higus Dunno
@Hogey Who?
@IDL Centrist
@In The Name Of Dunno
@InvertedCross Dunno
@irish_thug Dunno
@ironwolf Right
@Jack V Savage Liberal Hack
@JDragon Foreign, but a good guy
@Jesus Freak Right?
@JosephDredd Left
@JudoThrowFiasco Dunno
@Juventud Who?
@Kafir-kun Dunno
@KBE6EKCTAH_CCP Who?
@KILL KILL Dunno
@KONG-D'SNT-TAP Left
@Lead Salad Dunno
@lfd0311 Dunno
@LionExMachina Dunno
@M3t4tr0n Left
@Madmick Left
@MicroBrew Dunno
@MusterX Right
@ncordless Left
@ObsoleteSoul Dunno
@Octavian Left
@oldshadow Right
@Overpressure Left
@panamaican Narcissist
@PrinceOfPain Dunno
@Quipling Left
@RespectableDenizen Dunno
@Rex Kwon Do Right
@ripskater Right
@Rod1 Left
@Ruprecht Left
@sabretruth Left
@shadow_priest_x Dunno
@ShinkanPo Dunno
@Skip Reming Right
@SMEAC Right
@sodapopinski Funny
@SouthoftheAndes Dunno
@Space Dunno
@spin_ Dunno
@Teen Wolf Dunno
@TeTe Dunno
@Thames Left
@The ScorpioN Dunno
@theBLADE1 Dunno
@TheComebackKid Right
@Thurisaz Right
@Tropodan Dunno
@ucunc156 Dunno
@UpaLoompa Left
@voxom Dunno
@Work Play Left
@ZankouSmartest dude here.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I always thought of myself as center leftish

Tbh most of the posts of yours that I've seen are snarky comments directed at conservative posters so I just labeled you a lefists since I've seen you align yourself consistently against the right leaning posters here.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yeah, but an individual in an anarcho-syndicalist society who DOES try to claim ownership on capital would also be met with resistance. Transgressors to any social order are going to be shut down.

If the individual could maintain his own capital-ownership claims, that would still be consistent with anarchism or generally an anti-authoritarian societal structure. If he had institutional support for those claims or a private army forcing compliance, he's either benefiting from an authoritarian state (assuming that people have no input into decision-making) or he's a warlord.

But the differences in the "how" are so massive that putting them together would do them a disservice.

The differences are huge, but they aren't ideological. Well, Chomsky has some liberal views (supportive of democracy for its own sake, for example), right? Those would be ideological differences with a left that is more results-oriented. But hypothetically, you could have people on the same side ideologically who are extremely far apart when it comes to tactics.

 

[Greoric]

The only thing that was off was that all of the things you said would happen didn't happen, and some of the things you said wouldn't happen did happen. The whole point of the bet was to avoid the weaseling that you've been doing. I do admit that I was wrong to think that forcing you to make a specific, testable prediction that would be shown false would cause you to re-evaluate your quack econ theories.

Because the status quo of policies you support work so well we can't get out of ZIRP right? We had the first cycle ever without post 3% growth.

I wonder how much weaseling you're going to be doing when this gets really bad.

 

[ucunc156]

@HendoRuaGOAT left, anarchist?
@IDL beyond
@Skip Reming right out of his mind
@SouthoftheAndes everything/ nothing


@ucunc156 center-left

I LOL'd hard at those 4. Definitely some of the most bizarre posters on here.

Surprised you picked me center left. All my friends think I'm a flaming liberal. I definitely consider myself left/center, but a lot of that is due to the part that the republican party has completely gone totally off the rails.

 

[Arkain2K]

This seems way overoptimistic about the number of on-topic responses this thread will get.

I did had a sliver of hope that you'd at least turn in your voting ballot first before turning this into another 50-page discussion.

 

[dissolved]

Center Right? I wonder why that is. I do hold some conservative ideas I guess.

I'd say you hold to some conservative opinions (most recently I noticed your view that the LGBT community doesn't need representation in the AIDS summit). I'd say anyone in the middle three positions are quite moderate.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Because the status quo of policies you support work so well we can't get out of ZIRP right? We had the first cycle ever without post 3% growth.

What I support or don't support has no bearing on reality. The purpose of the bet was to get you to see and acknowledge reality, which is still not happening. You can say that the "status quo of policies" is shit without bad analysis. Start with getting things right, and then move to defending a position.

I wonder how much weaseling you're going to be doing when this gets really bad.

Over a long-enough timeline, we'll certainly have another recession. Could even be this year. That wouldn't be any kind of challenge to my position because my position isn't that recessions are impossible. I'm not a mirror image of you. Your "we're on the verge of the Greatest Collapse Ever" thing is dumb, though. The catalysts you named don't even make sense.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Left:
@Jack V Savage
@7437
@AnGrYcRoW
@ultramanhyata
@Falsedawn
@KONG-D'SNT-TAP
@Quipling
@Thames
@M3t4tr0n
@sloppypie

Center-Left:
@JDragon
@MicroBrew
@UpaLoompa
@Gandhi ?
@Rod1
@KILL KILL

Centrist/Moderate:
@Madmick
@panamaican
@ehtheist
@Zankou

Center-Right:
@sodapopinski
@lfd0311
@Bald1
@dontsnitch
@oldshadow
@LionExMachina
@TheComebackKid
@Cubo de Sangre

Right:
@CableandThanos
@glennrod
@In The Name Of
@ironwolf
@Rex Kwon Do
@Thurisaz
@Tropodan
@voxom
@Atheist

Libertarian:
@Greoric

Well, I definitely wouldn't want to be labeled a moderate. Boring.

 

[ucunc156]

I think the WR is the only place I've ever been accused of being a conservative.

Forgive me if I'm wrong. I've always thought your number one issue was gun rights. That was the basis of me putting you on the right.

 

[in the]

Left:
@Jack V Savage
@7437
@AnGrYcRoW
@ultramanhyata
@Falsedawn
@KONG-D'SNT-TAP
@Quipling
@Thames
@M3t4tr0n
@sloppypie

Center-Left:
@JDragon
@MicroBrew
@UpaLoompa
@Gandhi ?
@Rod1
@KILL KILL

Centrist/Moderate:
@Madmick
@panamaican
@ehtheist
@Zankou

Center-Right:
@sodapopinski
@lfd0311
@Bald1
@dontsnitch
@oldshadow
@LionExMachina
@TheComebackKid
@Cubo de Sangre

Right:
@CableandThanos
@glennrod
@In The Name Of
@ironwolf
@Rex Kwon Do
@Thurisaz
@Tropodan
@voxom
@Atheist

Libertarian:
@Greoric

How I feel:
Social issues: Center-right
Economic issues: Solid left

 

[Greoric]

Over a long-enough timeline, we'll certainly have another recession. Could even be this year. That wouldn't be any kind of challenge to my position because my position isn't that recessions are impossible. I'm not a mirror image of you. Your "we're on the verge of the Greatest Collapse Ever" thing is dumb, though. The catalysts you named don't even make sense.

So how far does this recession have to go do you think before you start weaseling out of your position?