What are your thoughts on Muay Thai Clinch?

[Tanawin]

I personally think the clinch throws in Muay Thai is underused, and underestimated. Coming from Thailand myself, I have the opportunity to train in the more traditional styles of Muay Thai, including Muay Boran, and Muay Chaiya, and the throws, sweeps, and trips are very useful for me in Judo and MMA sparring. A lot of people tend to think that the Muay Thai clinch is only used for knees, but watching people like Buakaw Saenchai, and Dejdamrong (from one fc), I don't see why it wouldn't do well against a Judoka, or a greco-roman wrestler.

 

[CFGroup]

Try it on a competent Dan Judoka.

U will b on your area in no time.

We just have so many more IQ and tools at that range and it's our bread and butter.

That said we'd be toast if we had to compete under your ruleset, so to each his own.

Up my IQ is there a Muay Thai/ Boran comp that includes more throwing time?

Combat Sambo or San Shou like?

 

[Uchi Mata]

The clinch in MT is a fantastic weapon, but a lot of the dumps don't work very well without the threat of strikes. The hand and head positioning is totally different in pure grappling because you don't have to worry about being elbowed or kneed, and you're also never going to catch any of the timing based dumps because your opponent isn't going to be committing their body weight as they throw a strike. That said, experienced Nak Muay definitely have very good sensitivity, balance, and hand fighting in the clinch, and the MT clinch is underutilized relative to a wrestling style clinch in MMA in my opinion.

 

[Crotalis]

Try it on a competent Dan Judoka.

Done and done. I have a Judo background and even still, the Thai clinch is in fact, the ONLY thing I can throw a competent Dan Judoka with. The way the clinch is often taught in the US, it's a little different from how the Thais do it. I have found that if you combine a typical "collar and elbow" entry with a proper Plumb, that you will often catch other grapplers off-guard. You have to enter into your throw right away (because Uchi Mata is right about the threat of strikes being a bug key), but yeah, it really does work if you know how to adapt it.

 

[RJ Green]

the one disadvantage i see with the plum is the elbow position makes it really easy to turn you for hip throws and foot sweeps. if you've got good head control, though, then i'm simultaneously worried about knee strikes AND regaining my posture.

i still think muay thai + judo/sambo/rasslin/throwin + bjj/more rasslin/some type of submission game is the holy trinity of MMA.

 

[j123]

Its a different style of grappling, but relies on the threat of strikes for most of its success.

Similar to pure grappling vs MMA (GnP) changing the dynamic greatly with strikes involved. You can be relaxed and chill when you're not getting hammered away with vicious strikes

The purpose of the clinch isn't striking, it's a significant and dominant part of it yes, but keeping control and off balancing your opponent is the key. If anything I find alot of similarities with judo in clinching, esp. the dumps and sweeps

 

[MaxMMA]

Trained a little muy boran so I know some stuff about the traditional clinch besides the classic plum. It can be devestating against fighters with little to no wrestling experience.

The problem is that clinch is way to upright to be effective against a decent wrestler not to mention the various arm frames and control points of the Thai clinch are easy to counter with arm drags, elbow pops and duck unders.

 

[Calibur]

It's terrifying if you get caught in one by a guy you didn't know was an expert.

Absolutely terrifying.

 

[snowdale]

Does somebody know decent videos about countering thai clinch via grappling (trips, throws etc.)?
I have one here, but do not know is this technique effective against competent MT gyus?

 

[CFGroup]

, the Thai clinch is in fact, the ONLY thing I can throw a competent Dan Judoka with. .

That's the only grips you've been successful with?

Jeez, even as a Nikyu I remember starting to get the better of the guys who didn't train as much anymore with way more than one entry.

I never went up against a lineage MT so I can't say it's not impossible to get tooled but I just don't see them getting to my center or catching Ashi on me without punching me in the face.

Post up some reference, if there's an effective clinch you can throw bombs from and take Dan's with..... Well I wanna god damn know about it cause that's scary as hell, LOL!

Combat Sambo's the closest to that I've found....

Oh and happy too much Turkey day all!

 

[georgegreece]

Here you go

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Try it on a competent Dan Judoka.

U will b on your area in no time.

The judoka would get his face broken with elbows....
If you isolate “the thai clinch”, and then try to impliment it into grappling it will not work because it’s founded on a certain set of rule. No lifting your opponent, no hip tosses, no reaping etc.... If you change the rules and use an oppo that has used them extensively, what do you think would happen? I say “the Thai clinch” as there is no separation between that and the striking component. Leaving your hips back leaves you open to knees through the center, hips in cup to cup leaves you prone to trip and throws, underhooks leave danger to elbows, removing aspects will remove its effectiveness.

A common thing you see in amature MT is guys reaching down to block knees with the forearms hips back, when the oppo had double collar tie (phlum). The reason they get away with it is because a key aspect is missing. The ability to smash the person in the face with elbows when both arms come down.

Another thing that needs to be understood is that although a throw is great, it’s no always the main aim. If I can trip an opponent and make him stumble, it’s 100% legal to kick him in the head on the way down. If I unbalance an opponent it means I have the opportunity to land strikes. If I throw he just gets back up, if I unbalance and strike I can cause damage

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Does somebody know decent videos about countering thai clinch via grappling (trips, throws etc.)?
I have one here, but do not know is this technique effective against competent MT gyus?

Use technique not legal in MT, hip tosses, back breakers, doubles and singles, even inner and outer reeps

 

[DaGenius]

The clinch is great and it’s really the thing that separates Muay Thai from every other stand up art.

It can be useful as part of you mixed grappling skill set.

 

[CFGroup]

The judoka would get his face broken with elbows....
If you isolate “the thai clinch”, and then try to impliment it into grappling it will not work because it’s founded on a certain set of rule. No lifting your opponent, no hip tosses, no reaping etc.... If you change the rules and use an oppo that has used them extensively, what do you think would happen? I say “the Thai clinch” as there is no separation between that and the striking component. Leaving your hips back leaves you open to knees through the center, hips in cup to cup leaves you prone to trip and throws, underhooks leave danger to elbows, removing aspects will remove its effectiveness.

A common thing you see in amature MT is guys reaching down to block knees with the forearms hips back, when the oppo had double collar tie (phlum). The reason they get away with it is because a key aspect is missing. The ability to smash the person in the face with elbows when both arms come down.

Another thing that needs to be understood is that although a throw is great, it’s no always the main aim. If I can trip an opponent and make him stumble, it’s 100% legal to kick him in the head on the way down. If I unbalance an opponent it means I have the opportunity to land strikes. If I throw he just gets back up, if I unbalance and strike I can cause damage

Just read my whole comment....

Of course I'm fucked if someone's throwing bombs with me trapping in a clinch.

I though he was saying he's tossing(good) Dan Judoka in the clinch under no striking rules....

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Just read my whole comment....

Of course I'm fucked if someone's throwing bombs with me trapping in a clinch.

I though he was saying he's tossing(good) Dan Judoka in the clinch under no striking rules....

The whole comment was what I was replying to. You were talking about isolating the grappling portion and I was telling you how that wouldn’t work.

 

[CFGroup]

The whole comment was what I was replying to. You were talking about isolating the grappling portion and I was telling you how that wouldn’t work.

Whatever dude read the OP, he said Judo or MMA .

I was commenting on the Judo.

Like pulling teeth......

 

[Daniel Fox]

My knowledge of Muay Thai is almost nonexistent, so I may be way off, if I am let me know, but be kind. In lower level wrestling you see a lot of kids using a collar tie, but as they get to a higher level of wrestling the collar tie puts them in a bad position. It is easy to get a Russian Two on One when a person has you in a collar tie, it is also very easy to get a throw by or a knock by. Wouldn't it be the same from a Thai plumb? If something was really effective then why wouldn't judoka and wrestler's adopt it? If you don't see it in high level martial arts than it probably wouldn't work against people at a high level of any discipline.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Whatever dude read the OP, he said Judo or MMA .

I was commenting on the Judo.

Like pulling teeth......

You said up my IQ is there an MT / MB with a focus on throws. I gave you a detailed breakdown about why there wasn’t and you threw your Teddy’s out of the stroller. Chill the fuck out, not everything has to be an argument

 

[NAKMUAY18]

My knowledge of Muay Thai is almost nonexistent, so I may be way off, if I am let me know, but be kind. In lower level wrestling you see a lot of kids using a collar tie, but as they get to a higher level of wrestling the collar tie puts them in a bad position. It is easy to get a Russian Two on One when a person has you in a collar tie, it is also very easy to get a throw by or a knock by. Wouldn't it be the same from a Thai plumb? If something was really effective then why wouldn't judoka and wrestler's adopt it? If you don't see it in high level martial arts than it probably wouldn't work against people at a high level of any discipline.

Contrary to to a lot of what you see at lower levels, double coller tie isn’t a hangout spot. Posture up, two hands under the chin to cross face and your out. Shoulder roll, breaks the grip, bear hug to the lower back, etc. Double collar tie should have elbows tight squeezing the head and it stuffed down chest level, you swinging the guy like a rag doll as you drive knees. It is a position that requires movement not outright dominance.
2-1 is there, but it’s not very advantageous in Thai. Your side by side so you can’t strike, and if you don’t manage to to get behind the shoulder straight away and drive pressure in he’s going to start smashing you with his free hand. Plus the fact your going to be wearing gloves in thai so it’s not as easy to secure the thumb grip.
The neutral position is single collar tie with and inside or outside bicep overhook (stops elbows), hips in, feet squared off. That would be an incredibly dangerous position if inside/outside reeps and or hip tosses were allowed. So they are not.