Wandy, Fedor or Minotauro, who had the greatest legacy in Pride?

[Still Holdin]

1. Fedor
2. Wand/Cro Cop (Fan Base incl.)
3. Nog

 

[Still Holdin]

oh wow really? why? why is it that its ok for 230lb men to fight 50 pounds over their body weight and not any other class. Have you ever grappled or sparred with a much bigger man? THere is NO advantage at all other than POSSIBLY speed. there are plenty of big men with speed like Travis Browne and Aleksander when he was relevant. You are just reiterating a common myth. The truth is that fedor, crocop, randy and slimmer cormier are at complete disadvantages in every HW fight.

This.

And it would still be more relevant today, had Lesnar not been exposed. Remember when Mir was bulking to compete with Carwin, Lesnar, etc?

 

[wilKO]

oh wow really? why? why is it that its ok for 230lb men to fight 50 pounds over their body weight and not any other class. Have you ever grappled or sparred with a much bigger man? THere is NO advantage at all other than POSSIBLY speed. there are plenty of big men with speed like Travis Browne and Aleksander when he was relevant. You are just reiterating a common myth. The truth is that fedor, crocop, randy and slimmer cormier are at complete disadvantages in every HW fight.

It's ok for 230lb men to fight guys 50lb heavier because size becomes a disadvantage. The best HWs ever are small HWs. Tell me I'm wrong... The best boxers ever at HW are 240 and below. Bar Klitschkos and Lewis. Tell me I'm wrong... Everything else is pretty irrelevant. You can state the factor that's you think make big HWs have the upper hand but you can't argue the fact that 230-240lbs is the optimal size for HWs and looking at the all time greats confirms it.

 

[RagingBeringola]

I'm not sure you mean legacy or popularity.

Fedor was feared and respected, but not sure how much "love" he got from the crowd.

Big Nog was extremely popular. He fought wars and was the warrior that would never give up and come back to get the win. He lost to Fedor twice, but was threatening Fedor with submissions from everywhere from the first to the last second.

Wanderlei had the legacy, and the popularity. His trilogy with Saku and his 2 wins over Rampage made him stuff of legends. His last fights in PRIDE didn't go well, but he brought up whatever he had for every fight. If Wanderlei ws fighting, you knew it was worth the money

 

[moreorless87]

I think this kind of ignorance needs to be eliminated.

Being 235lbs is an ADVANTAGE at HW. The best HWs ever are mostly between 230-240lbs. Fedor, Nogueira, Cro Cop, Randy, Cain, JDS. Even in boxing as well.

The 50lb gap thing doesn't transfer down the weight classes like that. So the GSP vs Thiago Silva comparison is ludicrous.

Lennox and the Klitschko's seem to disagree with that recently, very different sport anyway with no grappling/

One thing I think you need to bare in mind at HW is that weight really isnt a good judge of how large/powerful someone is since bodyfat percentages are often far higher. Fedor is a clear example of that, I'm guessing that reasonabley lean he would have been around 220-225lbs in Pride and probabley closer to 210-215lbs towards the end of his career.

Crocop won the OWGP weighing what 225lbs? Nog was if I remember correctly below 230lbs for much of his most sucessful years, both bulked up much more to try and offset there decline in the UFC. Someone like JDS is for me clearly much larger than any of those three in terms of his frame, Cain is bigger aswell IMHO.

You mention Randy and for me he's the perfect example of what I was talking about, not IMHO quite as slick as the Pride big 3 and the result was alot of loses to bigger guys like Barnett, Ricco and Lesnar who he was otherwise beating.

Small guys at HW are really walking a tighrope for me, its a division in which offence has always been the best defence but its also for them a division in which mistakes will be potentnially harshly punished.

 

[knight of mma]

It's ok for 230lb men to fight guys 50lb heavier because size becomes a disadvantage. The best HWs ever are small HWs. Tell me I'm wrong... The best boxers ever at HW are 240 and below. Bar Klitschkos and Lewis. Tell me I'm wrong... Everything else is pretty irrelevant. You can state the factor that's you think make big HWs have the upper hand but you can't argue the fact that 230-240lbs is the optimal size for HWs and looking at the all time greats confirms it.

The greatest 230-240 pounders have IMO the optimal weight to beat any man. Speed and power. That is why I don't buy this Joe Rogan bulsh*t that fedor is too small for a HW. Fedor in is prime was a legit 6 foot and 236 pound tank of power, speed, toughness, heart, mental strenght and skill. For me this is the perfect combination of a perfect fighter. the only real weakness has been fedor's skin.

How ever you have to aknowledge that big skilled HWs have very good chnces of winning if they get the fight to the ground. Big guys with good top game are a terrible thing for any man to have on him.

 

[MMApick**]

This. Fedor left Pride for Inoki in 2003 for the same reason Cro Cop did in 2001 and 2002. Inoki was offering way more money than Pride was.

Not saying they didn't offer more money.

But to ignore the fact that CC was calling out Fedor every fight and Fedor simply didn't want none of it. Even after CC wrecked his bro.

Gotta love the revisionists though...wouldn't be Sherdog without them :icon_lol:

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Mending-Minotauro-30267

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f61/did-anyone-else-know-fedor-ducking-crocop-pride-1579739/

 

[MMApick**]

fedor fought for bigger paycheck for inoki. Don't believe everything a bitter big nog says about fedor.

When fedor fought cro cop it was perfect for everybody, cro cop was wrecking everybody at the time. He could have fought fedor in the grand prix, but he got KOed before. I was a cro cop fan first and fedor won me over after I rooted against him vs cro cop. I was a huge cro cop fan, he brought me into MMA. But fedor is far above him. Fedor's mental strenght and willpower is way stronger than cro cop's.

after cro cop won the grand prix which didn't have fedor in it, he was injured, barnett declined the fight with fedor (he then fought minotauro on the same night) and fedor then faced and beat Hunt who beat cro cop in MMA too.

Fedor and Cro Cop fought in their primes and fedor won decisevely.

You clearly know nothing about Crocop if you think he was as fast and explosive in 2005 after fighting every other month as he was in 2002-2003.

Fedor wanted nothing to do with Crocop until Randleman knocked him out of his prime and ended his aura of invincibility.

Anyone that was a fan the years leading up to when they finally fought knows this.

Fedor cried injury many times to avoid the CC fight...then fought in other orgs or Sambo championships.

All you have to do is turn on your common sense to see Fedor was afraid of Crocop. Even when they finally did fight, Fedor was barking like a dog backstage and nervous as all hell (please find another fight where he is like this...he's always calm and looks like he woke up from a nap).

Oh well, Sherdog's gonna be Sherdog.

 

[MMApick**]

I think this kind of ignorance needs to be eliminated.

Being 235lbs is an ADVANTAGE at HW. The best HWs ever are mostly between 230-240lbs. Fedor, Nogueira, Cro Cop, Randy, Cain, JDS. Even in boxing as well.

The 50lb gap thing doesn't transfer down the weight classes like that. So the GSP vs Thiago Silva comparison is ludicrous.

Crocop was in the upper 190s and low 200s when he was in his prime and wrecking K1 HW monsters. Even in PRIDE, during his prime he was 213-217lbs.

 

[savemgs]

Nog
Wand
K shamrock
Fedor

 

[knight of mma]

You clearly know nothing about Crocop if you think he was as fast and explosive in 2005 after fighting every other month as he was in 2002-2003.

Fedor wanted nothing to do with Crocop until Randleman knocked him out of his prime and ended his aura of invincibility.

Anyone that was a fan the years leading up to when they finally fought knows this.

Fedor cried injury many times to avoid the CC fight...then fought in other orgs or Sambo championships.

All you have to do is turn on your common sense to see Fedor was afraid of Crocop. Even when they finally did fight, Fedor was barking like a dog backstage and nervous as all hell (please find another fight where he is like this...he's always calm and looks like he woke up from a nap).

Oh well, Sherdog's gonna be Sherdog.

Just because you saw him barking only once doesn't mean he did it just that one time I have seen him do that a few times.

Cro Cop got what he wanted in 2005 .

Fedor was fighting and won the Grand Prix in 2004, you know, the one where Cro Cop was beaten by Randleman.

After Fedor beat Minotauro for the second time, he fought a pancrase SHW champion Kohsaka in a revenge match in 2005 and then he fought Cro Cop.

What Cro Cop was doing in 2004 after his loss to Randleman was great. But he couldn't get Fedor in 2004, because he was in the tournament. He got him in 2005.

Cro Cop was in his prime at the time and his BJJ game was a lot better. You can cry all you want, but they fought prime vs prime and Fedor won.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Not saying they didn't offer more money.

But to ignore the fact that CC was calling out Fedor every fight and Fedor simply didn't want none of it. Even after CC wrecked his bro.

Gotta love the revisionists though...wouldn't be Sherdog without them :icon_lol:

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Mending-Minotauro-30267

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f61/did-anyone-else-know-fedor-ducking-crocop-pride-1579739/

cro cop had a few chances to fight fedor and he failed.. lost to nog in 2003 and randleman in 2004..

 

[Hanz_Blitz]

Wand is easily loved and had he not had that bs loss to Hunt and the second Hendo fight he'd be number one but things didn't play out quite right so Fedor is number 1 and Wand 2

 

[Fahrenheit1221]

01.) Fedor
02.) Wanderlei
03.) Shogun
04.) Gomi
05.) Sakuraba
06.) Nogueira
07.) Cro Cop
08.) Minowaman
09.) Rampage
10.) Kid?

Off the top of my head, top Pride legacies.