International US military operations across the Sahel are at risk after Niger ends cooperation

[LeonardoBjj]

I've told this one before..

When I was deployed to Uganda back in the mid-90's, we'd pass by a power station on our way around our location. It read in English and Chinese.

"This plant brought to you by (paraphrasing here) Shenzhen heavy manufacturing, Beijing, China. It was just GIVEN to the Ugandans for free.

This was in the 90's.

We (the royal "We") are no longer looking at these locales as fledgling democracies to shepherd towards freedom and justice. We're now looking at these countries through the lens of "Faraway "other" people."

China and Russia will gladly take our role if we let them.

- Theres no dinner for free in politics.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

"Corruption" is ALWAYS the go-to excuse. Always.

"They needed to be overthrown, they were corrupt!"

20 years go by and the regime that overtook power now has a groundswell rising against them based on them being...you guessed it...corrupt! And on and on it goes.

We in the west don't need to do it to ourselves, we will just tinker around with lesser developed nations and influence which coup works and which one doesn't.

- This my friend. Whant cheaper fruits? We can always overthrown a democratic leader in South america for that!

Americans arent evil people, but the guys keep ellecting old politicians, whit theirt antiquated political vision.
Theres no need to long planing, they're close to their last days, their families set up for generations.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Neither seems to have done a good job over the last 8 years.

The issue is America has no long term vision anymore.

Do we want to lead? Do we want to react only? What the hell is our role in the world?

China has a vision at least. They won’t live to see it, but they have a vision.

- The old empires were like that. They started a construction that took generations to finish.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

That last paragraph is so important and it's something I draw attention to whenever it's relevant.

There has been systematic attack on our influence in underdeveloped parts of the world. Part of it comes from our enemies. But a part of it comes from Americans inability to see these countries and their people as equals. So they treat them like supplicants, assuming they have no choice but to do what we ask. China and Russia are very aggressive at positioning themselves as alternatives.

All the posturing about who wins the Presidency aside, this is a foreign policy issue with long term consequences. Which candidate is most capable of shoring up and, ideally, growing our strategic alliances in Africa, South America, the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

- Neither Trump or Biden are capable of long therm thiking, and they are just the charismatic dudes on press. The people controlling USA, havent done a good job. But they athleast made a lot of money selling weapons.

 

[Fluffernutter]

I've told this one before..

When I was deployed to Uganda back in the mid-90's, we'd pass by a power station on our way around our location. It read in English and Chinese.

"This plant brought to you by (paraphrasing here) Shenzhen heavy manufacturing, Beijing, China. It was just GIVEN to the Ugandans for free.

This was in the 90's.

We (the royal "We") are no longer looking at these locales as fledgling democracies to shepherd towards freedom and justice. We're now looking at these countries through the lens of "Faraway "other" people."

China and Russia will gladly take our role if we let them.

Senior US policy maker to a subordinate stationed in eastern Africa over a decade ago (paraphrasing):


"We have our work cut out for us. The US's energy is put towards projects like health care initiatives and food security. China, on the other hand, builds tangible structures like bridges and roads. We need to ensure that the US's efforts are seen as just as valuable as China's"

It's easy to see a new bridge and say "China did that". It's more difficult to see slightly taller 5 years olds, lower percentage of infant mortality, girls staying in school longer, etc. and say "the US's efforts help us with that."

 

[Fluffernutter]

Told you before, we have very opposite political opinions but thank you for your service. You ever been to Djibouti? I almost went but went to Afghan for the 4th time instead.

If you been whats your opinion living there

I've been to Djibouti. Very important partner for many countries. In fact, it was the hist of China's first overseas base.

Not long ago, their American curriculum international school was granted accreditation. This now means that those assigned to the country: Military, State Department, USAID, etc. can stay longer term.

 

[Strychnine]

Told you before, we have very opposite political opinions but thank you for your service. You ever been to Djibouti? I almost went but went to Afghan for the 4th time instead.

If you been whats your opinion living there

I haven't been to Djibouti, but Uganda was wonderful. Amazing people and Kampala is a modern city. No one is in a hurry because Winter is never coming. Lush, beautiful veldt and the people are wonderful.

 

[Strychnine]

Senior US policy maker to a subordinate stationed in eastern Africa over a decade ago (paraphrasing):


"We have our work cut out for us. The US's energy is put towards projects like health care initiatives and food security. China, on the other hand, builds tangible structures like bridges and roads. We need to ensure that the US's efforts are seen as just as valuable as China's"

It's easy to see a new bridge and say "China did that". It's more difficult to see slightly taller 5 years olds, lower percentage of infant mortality, girls staying in school longer, etc. and say "the US's efforts help us with that."

I grudgingly agree.

 

[Mike Hagger]

That last paragraph is so important and it's something I draw attention to whenever it's relevant.

There has been systematic attack on our influence in underdeveloped parts of the world. Part of it comes from our enemies. But a part of it comes from Americans inability to see these countries and their people as equals. So they treat them like supplicants, assuming they have no choice but to do what we ask. China and Russia are very aggressive at positioning themselves as alternatives.

All the posturing about who wins the Presidency aside, this is a foreign policy issue with long term consequences. Which candidate is most capable of shoring up and, ideally, growing our strategic alliances in Africa, South America, the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

I don’t know about that, having spent a long time in this specific country, I think you ought to provide an example of this subservient behavior the US demands.

I would say the biggest advantage China brings is the complete lack of red tape. If African country X asks for this or that in exchange for this or that, that resource is immediately shipped. Whereas US projects are always a longer timeline and with a lot more restrictions. Specially in the military and infrastructure realm, we provide better training but struggle to immediately fill gaps in their equipment.

China can also get big projects going quickly to exploit resources, in Niger there’s an abundance of natural resources that the French previously controlled, I’m sure China has swooped into take that over. But I have not been there a in a few years.

Also it’s certainly not unnoticed that China and Russia give no fucks how bad their ally mistreats or abuses their people to achieve their ends. So long as China gets resources and Russia gets paid and counters the US geopolitical strategy.

End of the day there’s only so much you can do in Niger it’s fucked, not just politically, but it’s just a harsh place with over population relative to food supplies.

 

[7even]

How many of you been pronouncing Niger wrong in your heads?

 

[LeonardoBjj]

US weighing options in Africa after Niger junta orders departure from key counterterrorism base​

BY TARA COPP AND MATTHEW LEE
Updated 4:50 PM BRT, March 18, 2024

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon is working with Niger officials, seeking a way for U.S. troops to stay in the country — a key base for counterterrorism operations in sub-Saharan Africa — following a weekend directive that they leave.

Last week a high level-delegation of U.S. officials, including Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs Molly Phee, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs Celeste Wallander and the head of U.S. Africa Command Gen. Michael Langley, traveled to Niger to meet with members of the military junta.

Pentagon deputy press secretary Sabrina Singh said Monday the U.S. officials had “lengthy and direct” discussions with the junta officials that were also in part spurred by concerns over Niger’s potential relationships with Russia and Iran.

“We were troubled on the path that Niger is on,” Singh said.

White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said the U.S. was “closely monitoring the Russian defense activities” there in order “to assess and mitigate potential risk to U.S. personnel, interests and assets.”

On Saturday, following the meeting, the junta’s spokesperson, Col. Maj. Amadou Abdramane, said U.S. flights over Niger’s territory in recent weeks were illegal. Meanwhile, Insa Garba Saidou, a local activist who assists Niger’s military rulers with their communications, criticized U.S. efforts to force the junta to pick between strategic partners.

https://apnews.com/article/niger-fo...on-terrorism-b26f4703fc514d818fa3f5e9957a9fe3

 

[Hdfi]

I don’t know about that, having spent a long time in this specific country, I think you ought to provide an example of this subservient behavior the US demands.

I would say the biggest advantage China brings is the complete lack of red tape. If African country X asks for this or that in exchange for this or that, that resource is immediately shipped. Whereas US projects are always a longer timeline and with a lot more restrictions. Specially in the military and infrastructure realm, we provide better training but struggle to immediately fill gaps in their equipment.

China can also get big projects going quickly to exploit resources, in Niger there’s an abundance of natural resources that the French previously controlled, I’m sure China has swooped into take that over. But I have not been there a in a few years.

Also it’s certainly not unnoticed that China and Russia give no fucks how bad their ally mistreats or abuses their people to achieve their ends. So long as China gets resources and Russia gets paid and counters the US geopolitical strategy.

End of the day there’s only so much you can do in Niger it’s fucked, not just politically, but it’s just a harsh place with over population relative to food supplies.

The real reason is because China offers a much better deal to African countries.

 

[Fluffernutter]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/17/niger-air-force-whistleblower/

Update: Niger asked US troops to leave. But, they are still there. If their deployment time has ended, they are still being held on base. Airman wrote to his member of Congress.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/17/niger-air-force-whistleblower/

Update: Niger asked US troops to leave. But, they are still there. If their deployment time has ended, they are still being held on base. Airman wrote to his member of Congress.

- I've read that they want the troops to cooperate. So Russia and USA togheter! LIke Jim Belush and Arnold in Red Heat

 

[LeonardoBjj]

The US attempts a new military deal with Niger in a last ditch effort to stay​

BY JESSICA DONATI AND SAM MEDNICK
Updated 1:44 PM BRT, April 19, 2024

DAKAR, Senegal (AP) — The United States is attempting to create a new military agreement with Niger that would allow it to remain in the country, weeks after the junta said its presence was no longer justified, two Western officials told The Associated Press Friday.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the situation, said Washington was actively working on options for a revised deal aimed at retaining its foothold in the West African nation.

Niger plays a central role in the U.S. military’s operations in Africa’s Sahel region, Washington is concerned about the spread of jihadist violence where local groups have pledged allegiance to al-Qaida and the Islamic State groups.

Niger is home to a major U.S. airbase, in the city of Agadez, some 920 kilometers (550 miles) from the capital Niamey, using it for manned and unmanned surveillance flights and other operations. The U.S. has also invested hundreds of millions of dollars in training Niger’s military since it began operations there in 2013.

But relations have frayed between Niger and Western countries since mutinous soldiers ousted the country’s democratically elected president in July. Niger’s junta has since told French forces to leave and turned instead to Russia for security. Earlier this month, Russian military trainers arrived to reinforce the country’s air defenses and with Russian equipment to train Nigeriens to use.

The decision to revise the agreement was seen by one of the officials in an internal cable for State Department officials. It didn’t outline what the terms would be and it’s still unclear if the junta will be receptive to them.

In October, Washington officially designated the military takeover as a coup, which triggered U.S. laws restricting the military support and aid that it can provide to Niger. In March, a U.S. delegation traveled to Niger to hold discussions at senior levels to explore whether it was possible to achieve an agreement respecting the concerns of both sides, said a State Department official.

“We are in touch with the transition authorities and are discussing next steps. The (junta) has made it clear that they want a different model for what U.S. military cooperation with Niger looks like going forward. What that cooperation is, is still under discussion,” said the official.

The revised agreement would aim at finding a formula that addressed respective interests and concerns, as maintaining a U.S. presence in the country is essential to ensure the safety of the troops, said one of the officials. What’s at stake is more than counterterrorism operations, said the official. Without a U.S. troop presence it will become harder to protect and evacuate military and diplomatic staff in the region if there were any type of escalation.

The wisest policy is for the United States to disengage, but it’s complicated because of the extensive military and intelligence infrastructure the U.S. has invested in the country, said Hannah Rae Armstrong, a senior consultant on Sahel peace and security.

“It puts the U.S. in a very bad position because it’s hard to walk away from,” she said. If the U.S. stays, it should find a new mode of engagement that departs from the failed counterterror cooperation model of the past decade, and continues to press other states in the Sahel region on accountability and human rights abuses, she said.

Insa Garba Saidou, a local activist who assists Niger’s military rulers with their communications, couldn’t confirm that Niger was revising its military agreement but said there had been long discussions with the U.S. and that Niger was open to working with other countries.

“The people of Niger and their interests must be preserved and I think this is logical, he said. “The relations between the two states must be fair and the two countries must respect each other.”

https://apnews.com/article/united-s...hel-islamist-91fbc427c825e91956827e19f289cdcc

 

[Videer]

It will be much worse than when the french left Mali and Burkina Faso. In a year we'll be reading how russians were helpless as hamsters against JNIM and ISGS.

 

[Rholk]

It will be much worse than when the french left Mali and Burkina Faso. In a year we'll be reading how russians were helpless as hamsters against JNIM and ISGS.

A large part of Africa will be in chaos in <5 years.

The colonial history has made this issue a really sensitive one for western governments.
Few, if any, countries are willing to take an assertive stance to prevent the region spiralling into chaos (largely thanks to Russia) because anyone that does will most likely be accused of having colonial policies.

Which to a certain degree might be true, but honestly it would prevent a gigantic amount of death/destruction/human suffering in the coming years.
The EU better get their immigration / border affairs in order.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[Anewt]

A large part of Africa will be in chaos in <5 years.

The colonial history has made this issue a really sensitive one for western governments.
Few, if any, countries are willing to take an assertive stance to prevent the region spiralling into chaos (largely thanks to Russia) because anyone that does will most likely be accused of having colonial policies.

Which to a certain degree might be true, but honestly it would prevent a gigantic amount of death/destruction/human suffering in the coming years.
The EU better get their immigration / border affairs in order.

Interesting times ahead.

France has maintained reaping the benefits of the sahel region for decades...... even " post colonialism "

The regions been in chaos the entire time.



Really good watch. Long tho

 

[Rholk]

France has maintained reaping the benefits of the sahel region for decades...... even " post colonialism "

The regions been in chaos the entire time.



Really good watch. Long tho

That vid is a great watch indeed.
Watched it recently, must admit i was a bit unaware of the extent of France involvement in the present day.
Obviously that's not the desired situation either.

But right now we're sitting back and allowing the region to plummit itself (with alot of help from Russia) in to a giant mess.
And i feel the reason we won't step in is largely because "we're not perfect either" and the sentiment that we'll be colonizing once again.

Feels like we're (we beeing the west) taking the morally easy option in this, sit back, because its not our problem.

Which might be true, but I dare to say the future is looking very, very bleak for african nations if we go down that road.

I might be wrong ofcourse, perhaps it'll all work out, but i sincerely doubt it.

 

[Anewt]

That vid is a great watch indeed.
Watched it recently, must admit i was a bit unaware of the extent of France involvement in the present day.
Obviously that's not the desired situation either.

But right now we're sitting back and allowing the region to plummit itself (with alot of help from Russia) in to a giant mess.
And i feel the reason we won't step in is largely because "we're not perfect either" and the sentiment that we'll be colonizing once again.

Feels like we're (we beeing the west) taking the morally easy option in this, sit back, because its not our problem.

Which might be true, but I dare to say the future is looking very, very bleak for african nations if we go down that road.

I might be wrong ofcourse, perhaps it'll all work out, but i sincerely doubt it.

I think sadly the region itself it as hot mess regardless of who's in charge.

I can't blame Niger for trying something different. Had us and French military bases and troops there for ages and , Still getting fucked the entire time by terrorism whilst bankrupting themselves to maintain the French monopoly.

I mean they've been getting hit more and more frequently by terrorism in the past 12 years the us has established the military presence.

[ The withdrawal, expected to occur over the coming months, will mean the closure of a US drone facility, known as Base 201, at Agadez in the Sahara that was opened in 2018 at a cost of $110m.

The base, one of the main US drone facilities in Africa, has been used in operations against jihadist groups in the Sahel region and was reportedly the launchpad for a series of deadly strikes against Islamic State fighters in Libya in 2019.]

US to withdraw from Niger after security pact fails in strategic victory for Russia

Biden administration to rethink counter-terrorism strategy after breakdown of pact allowing US forces on soil to fight jihadists

www.theguardian.com

Do I think it will get any better under the new mob with Russia? Highly highly unlikely imo. But I really can't blame them for trying something different at this stage.