News Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk is set for February 17 in Saudi Arabia

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

If you're weighing greats in terms of both pro and amateur careers, sure.

As a pro, he just hasn't had the volume of fights to surpass a lot of old timers.

Agreed. If we're just talking talent though, or combined amateur & pro accomplishments, then he is one of the best boxers to ever live.

As an amateur alone he was world & Olympic champion, turned pro and won the Super Series tourney where he became undisputed at cruiser, subsequently won FOTY, then moved up and unified 3 belts at heavyweight all while remaining undefeated. More impressively he beat his toughest opponents in their own backyards. Now he's only 1 belt away from becoming a two-division undisputed champ.

Realistically, he's already accomplished everything there is in the sport. Usyk is a lock for the HOF (which does factor in amateur accomplishments as well).

 

[Jonny Ninja]

If you're weighing greats in terms of both pro and amateur careers, sure.

As a pro, he just hasn't had the volume of fights to surpass a lot of old timers.

Absolutely. He spent too long as an amateur to be a top 10 atg in the pros

 

[that Indian]

If you're weighing greats in terms of both pro and amateur careers, sure.

As a pro, he just hasn't had the volume of fights to surpass a lot of old timers.

You're right of course. It is a bit of a ridiculous assertion on my part.

But my big problem with the ATG lists (aside from being purely speculative) is that they are also mythical. Most of the fighters in the top 20 are not from the modern era--hell there's not even good quality video of their fights. They are placed not on reasonable calculations of their abilities but on historical merit.

I have a hard time thinking that boxing is the only sport that hasn't evolved. Babe Ruth would probably have a hard time making it in the majors now.

If I were to do a list, I would not remove these greats (like Harry Greb, SRR, Sandy Saddler) but would put them in shared rankings with fighters we can actually observe and better evaluate.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You're right of course. It is a bit of a ridiculous assertion on my part.

But my big problem with the ATG lists (aside from being purely speculative) is that they are also mythical. Most of the fighters in the top 20 are not from the modern era--hell there's not even good quality video of their fights. They are placed not on reasonable calculations of their abilities but on historical merit.

I have a hard time thinking that boxing is the only sport that hasn't evolved. Babe Ruth would probably have a hard time making it in the majors now.

If I were to do a list, I would not remove these greats (like Harry Greb, SRR, Sandy Saddler) but would put them in shared rankings with fighters we can actually observe and better evaluate.

Perhaps the biggest issue with the whole ATG concept is that no official designation even exists. It has never existed. At least HOF status does since fighters actually have to be inducted into the hall. Verification is trivial. You can simply check the IBHOF's website or visit Canastota, NY and view the display for yourself.

BoxRec does provide both divisional & P4P all-time ratings, which are computerized, but they're highly questionable to say the least. It's no wonder their algorithm is constantly needing tweaked. They used to have Floyd as No. 1 P4P all-time, which was laughable, but more recently SRR reclaimed the top spot. Occasionally publications like Ring Magazine will also publish their own all-time ratings. People can debate fighter placement in those lists, and whether or not some should even be included on there, but the top handful within a division are already recognized as bona fide ATGs by fans & historians alike.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Not sure he'd slice his own eye mate

No I don’t necessarily believe that, but I’m not too sure I believe the video that has been released either. In the sparring clip furys wearing white gloves. A cut like that; where is all the claret? I know the video is poor quality but blood would show on his gloves as he just wiped his eye

That shot does look like an elbow but it looks like it caught him on the chin, not the eye

There’s something fishy going on though I don’t necessarily think he cut it himself, intentionally. But who knowns, the one thing we can be sure of is fury is a compulsive liar, and everything he says should be questioned

 

[Jonny Ninja]

You're right of course. It is a bit of a ridiculous assertion on my part.

But my big problem with the ATG lists (aside from being purely speculative) is that they are also mythical. Most of the fighters in the top 20 are not from the modern era--hell there's not even good quality video of their fights. They are placed not on reasonable calculations of their abilities but on historical merit.

I have a hard time thinking that boxing is the only sport that hasn't evolved. Babe Ruth would probably have a hard time making it in the majors now.

If I were to do a list, I would not remove these greats (like Harry Greb, SRR, Sandy Saddler) but would put them in shared rankings with fighters we can actually observe and better evaluate.

I don’t think it necessarily is dude and it’s all subjective. He is an ATG across both ami and pro, without doubt. I love usyk but I personally think his pro career will be too short.

However, there is far more to his record than his belts and unbeaten record. He’s fought and beat everyone he needed to in double quick time. No ducking, no bullshit and even fought them all in their own manor! Thats incredible and literally unheard of.
He might have only gone up one weight class but he is fighting guys that are naturally 50/60 lbs bigger than him. Guys that have won titles at multiple weight classes don’t give nearly as much weight/size up as usyk does

People just looking at his titles or unbeaten record don’t see the really impressive achievements. The most surprising thing is how much he is loved in the UK, media and fans! even though he’s made a habit of beating British fighters and taking their titles in front of their home town crowds

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I don’t think it necessarily is dude and it’s all subjective. He is an ATG across both ami and pro, without doubt. I love usyk but I personally think his pro career will be too short.

However, there is far more to his record than his belts and unbeaten record. He’s fought and beat everyone he needed to in double quick time. No ducking, no bullshit and even fought them all in their own manor! Thats incredible and literally unheard of.
He might have only gone up one weight class but he is fighting guys that are naturally 50/60 lbs bigger than him. Guys that have won titles at multiple weight classes don’t give nearly as much weight up as usyk does

People just looking at his titles or unbeaten record don’t see the really impressive achievements. The most surprising thing is how much he is loved in the UK, media and fans! even though he’s made a habit of beating British fighters and taking their titles in front of their home town crowds

Yeah, I can't name anyone today that's fighting opponents on their own turf pretty much every time out. On neutral turf, or occasionally their opponents', but not as frequently as Usyk has since the very beginning. He went to Russia just a few years after they invaded Crimea ffs.

Fighters with a big punch are more willing to go into their opponents' backyards because they're not as worried about getting shorted on the cards should it go to decision (through scoring knockdowns or simply ending the fight ITD). Usyk, however, isn't even a puncher so his willingness to walk into hostile territory so regularly is even more rare than most realize.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Yeah, I can't name anyone today that's fighting opponents on their own turf pretty much every time out. On neutral turf, or occasionally their opponents', but not as frequently as Usyk has since the very beginning. He went to Russia just a few years after they invaded Crimea ffs.

Fighters with a big punch are more willing to go into their opponents' backyards because they're not as worried about getting shorted on the cards should it go to decision (through scoring knockdowns or simply ending the fight ITD). Usyk, however, isn't even a puncher so his willingness to walk into hostile territory so regularly is even more rare than most realize.

Another really really good point. He’s completely unique as a fighter in this day and age. All real boxing fans respect this. He’s probably the most popular foreign fighter in the Uk since Ali. And that’s no slight, us Brits fuckin love Ali.

 

[Fjord]

Because Fury is going to do his best to clinch and hold his way to a boring victory every time he thinks he’s in trouble. Quote me on this and come back and say, “You were right.” After the fight goes exactly the way I’ve said it will.

If they fought like the champions did 20-30 years ago it would be an amazing brawl in which Ngannou has a genuine chance to knock Fury out.

See, you’re getting lost again. Fury is not going to box him and put him away. He’s going to clinch and hold Ngannou as much as he can.

This is getting sidetracked. My main point was that a ton of the excitement and anticipation with the Ngannou fight is gone with the early Usyk announcement. The announcement should and could have waited and become a really exciting post fight moment.

Don’t forget to come back and say “You were right and the fight went exactly as you said it would!”

@Kovalev's "Man Bag"

Been a while. Several months. Been waiting patiently. You never came back and said I was right.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@Kovalev's "Man Bag"

Been a while. Several months. Been waiting patiently. You never came back and said I was right.

Didn't you pick Ngannou to win? If so that's not exactly getting it right.

 

[Fjord]

Didn't you pick Ngannou to win? If so that's not exactly getting it right.

Never said that. But I'm willing to indulge you. Quote me where I said that.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Never said that. But I'm willing to indulge you. Quote me where I said that.

Okay, since you're being evasive let me ask you a simple question. Who did you pick to win between Fury & Ngannou?

 

[Fjord]

Okay, since you're being evasive let me ask you a simple question. Who did you pick to win between Fury & Ngannou?

Oh man. The woke virus got you. Can't have a discussion with you. You gone all nonsensical.

It's cool. Wish you the best.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Oh man. The woke virus got you. Can't have a discussion with you. You gone all nonsensical.

It's cool. Wish you the best.

I'm woke now? LOL. I just asked who you picked. Who cares if the fight played out like you thought but your guy lost. That would mean that the fight didn't go exactly as you thought it would. BTW I picked Fury. It went a lot differently, sure, but he won.

 

[Fjord]

I'm woke now? LOL. I just asked who you picked. Who cares if the fight played out like you thought but your guy lost. That would mean that the fight didn't go exactly as you thought it would. BTW I picked Fury. It went a lot differently, sure, but he won.

You gotta change your user name to "Woke Man Bag". Seriously.

Can't have a discussion with you if you can't respond with facts.

It's okay. The woke virus is pervasive for sure. It gets to people. Important thing is you've been called out on it and you can get help for it before it gets too late for you.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You gotta change your user name to "Woke Man Bag". Seriously.

Can't have a discussion with you if you can't respond with facts.

It's okay. The woke virus is pervasive for sure. It gets to people. Important thing is you've been called out on it and you can get help for it before it gets too late for you.

Are you on drugs? You want me to admit that you were right about something. Okay, you were spot on. I admit it.

 

[Fjord]

Are you on drugs? You want me to admit that you were right about something. Okay, you were spot on. I admit it.

See, now you're becoming hostile. Like one of those irrational liberals.

Man, stay grounded. No reason to become irrational and nonsensical.

The discussion is what it is. The facts are what they are. Stay grounded in that.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

See, now you're becoming hostile. Like one of those irrational liberals.

Man, stay grounded. No reason to become irrational and nonsensical.

The discussion is what it is. The facts are what they are. Stay grounded in that.

Right. Got it. I'm off to bed man. Congrats and all.

 

[Fjord]

Right. Got it. I'm off to bed man. Congrats and all.

Cool. Sleep well man.

 

[Blastbeat]

after all the drama, the craziness and the bullshit, the poll is almost dead even now.
we gettin hype boys