Tony Cecchine and his students

sukotsuto said:
Hahah might not remember me, but I was in BTT Long Beach for around a month lol.

Anyway, sorry for bumping this, but I do know Tony Cecchine. To those who don't, his late 90s DVD series "Lost Art of Hooking" is said to be a guilty pleasure for advanced grapplers, since he really has A LOT of really good stuff, despite being part of an instructional set a decade ago, so he's a legit catch wrestler, despite what Jake Shannon claims. Jake Shannon is the very person who might be coming to all sorts of MMA forums registering under various usernames, trying to dirty Cecchine's name for some unknown, obsessive reason to do so, while marketing reprints of old catch wrestler texts, which are probably public domain stuff anyway.

Funnily enough, the only time Jake Shannon started talking crap about Cecchine only after Lou Thesz had already passed away, as I don't think he'd be able to say all that if Thesz is still alive, as Thesz is also legit, and Thesz considers Cecchine to be legit as well. Cecchine covers some of Thesz's techniques in "The Lost Art of Hooking" as well.

In any case, ever since Cecchine churned out some of his old videos for free in youtube (like full lessons from the "LAOH" series), people are starting to realize that his shit is totally legit.

Cecchine trained Shonie Carter a few times btw, mostly training for submission defense. And look at Shonie's record - he only has like 3 sub losses out of around 80 total fights in his career.
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When were you at BTT? Whats your name? A lot of guys pass through. I have a hard time remembering names if they arent a Blue Belt and up.
 
proteinwisdom said:
For the record, here are some of the venues in which guy's Cecchine has trained have fought and won: UFC victory, Pancrase victory, IFC Championship, NAGA championships, Arnold Classic championship. If you want names, go through and query past victors, or poke around a bit.
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Are you freaking serious?! "UFC victory...go through the past victors and see." You resurrect a thread after a year and half (which had ALREADY been resurrected from a THREE year hiatus) to basically tell us to "go do some research"? You can't throw ONE name out there? No? I'm supposed to go through 100+ UFC's, what...1000+ Pancrase fights? And poke around? And then go back and try to cross reference every single one of those fucking names to see if they bought a Tony C DVD or something? Yes, I want names. If you can't give them to us then go away. Your post is ridiculous.
 
Ninjamurf said:
Are you freaking serious?! "UFC victory...go through the past victors and see." You resurrect a thread after a year and half (which had ALREADY been resurrected from a THREE year hiatus) to basically tell us to "go do some research"? You can't throw ONE name out there? No? I'm supposed to go through 100+ UFC's, what...1000+ Pancrase fights? And poke around? And then go back and try to cross reference every single one of those fucking names to see if they bought a Tony C DVD or something? Yes, I want names. If you can't give them to us then go away. Your post is ridiculous.
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My god! The Ninja just destroyed you hard..
 
proteinwisdom said:
Scam? Funny. I've been to his gym several times. It's a private gym, not a public school. In fact, he held a seminar there in March of '09.

For the record, here are some of the venues in which guy's Cecchine has trained have fought and won: UFC victory, Pancrase victory, IFC Championship, NAGA championships, Arnold Classic championship. If you want names, go through and query past victors, or poke around a bit.
.
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^ This Bullshit

+

Ninjamurf said:
Are you freaking serious?! "UFC victory...go through the past victors and see." You resurrect a thread after a year and half (which had ALREADY been resurrected from a THREE year hiatus) to basically tell us to "go do some research"? You can't throw ONE name out there? No? I'm supposed to go through 100+ UFC's, what...1000+ Pancrase fights? And poke around? And then go back and try to cross reference every single one of those fucking names to see if they bought a Tony C DVD or something? Yes, I want names. If you can't give them to us then go away. Your post is ridiculous.
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Shonie Carter trained subs and defense with cecchine... for how long I don't know
 
Where di Tony get train Catch Wrestling? Where's his creds/lineage? This guy always gave off a scam artist vibe.
 
Corey Kuropas said:
Didn't Lou end up trashing him at some point?
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I think so. There is so much in fighting in the community it is ridiculous!

Remember CACC gave birth to US folkstyle AND pro wrestling.

I am afraid that alot of these guys keep the pro wrestling "shit talking" even though they are trying to push the sport as a legit grappling art.

It really discredits the sport to a degree that not only are many individuals considered frauds, the style itself is considered BS by many. Just browse these forums to see what I mean.

As far as Tony getting trashed, not sure what, how or why or even if...but at the least he was smart enough to get a video testimonial at some point from a respected pro wrestler with ties to Japan, legit CACC and Ad Santel.
 
knoxpk said:
I think so. There is so much in fighting in the community it is ridiculous!
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Agreed. If I could use ancient cultures to repsresent modern grappling communitites, I would say the Catch guys remind me of the Celts/Gauls. At their zenith, their influence spread far and wide, and they were known to be fierce warriors (and had many early victories), but disorganization and a lack of unity ultimately led to their downfall, while their neighbors progressed around them. Let's not let history repeat itself!
 
Regarding Tony Cecchine: His lineage is thus, Henry Gehring --- > Stanley Radwan --- > Tony Cecchine --- > His students.

Now stop fucking freaking out about lineage.
 
Voided_Warranty said:
Regarding Tony Cecchine: His lineage is thus, Henry Gehring --- > Stanley Radwan --- > Tony Cecchine --- > His students.

Now stop fucking freaking out about lineage.
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The part in Bold is what people are curious about. I dont think its freaking out and I do feel a fair question.
 
In fact, here we have tony answering some of your VERY same questions in this thread reply to Judoforum.com
Tony Cecchine said:
Hello,

First, I just want to let you know that this is really me posting. An administrator can verify that I've used my website address to sign up for this forum. This is the first time in many years that I've posted in an online forum. I'm not here in any way to cause any trouble. I just thought by reading this thread that was brought to my attention, that everyone seems very cool and really have legit questions and in some cases may have either been really curious, or given some false info. I'm not very good at expressing myself with writing, so I don't want to be misunderstood. I refuse to get into any sort of bashing anyone. I won't get into anything personal regarding anyone. I can't stand that so I want to make that clear. What I'm about to state/ask is in no way meant to be taken personal towards anyone. I hope I can answer or explain the main questions. I may be answering them out of order.

First off, I greatly admire Sakuraba big time. He was/is sensational. I never met him or talked with him. I wish I could have. When I used to see some of his movements I was like "I wish I could do that." Same goes when I see a lot of athletes. Some guys I just shake my head at in great amazement. It's tough to start naming names because you invariably leave out someone. On the net, that can be misinterpreted. I remember a guy named Rumina Sato. He was another amazing guy. Same goes for tons of amateur wrestlers as well as current MMA guys. It's like a feast! There's just so many good things out there to watch. So in no way do I consider myself on the level of some of these guys. I know my limitations and try very hard to stay within those confines...lol.

Now I want to state some things here and please don't think it's an attack. Someone kind of brush aside my training of Shonie Carter. I don't think that's fair and is part of the problem that I've encountered through the years. Shonie had his fight with Matt Serra because he (Shonie) was a well established fighter. If he was a beginner, that fight would never of taken place obviously. I was honored that he would want me to help him work on his preparation. It's not unlike anyone else today who seeks out training from someone. For example, Brock going to Eric Paulsen for training (again, I'm not comparing myself to Eric or anything like that. His name just happened to be mentioned in this thread). I'm proud that what I taught Shonie, which was escaping positions/subs and getting back to his feet so he can use his striking strength, was put to good use. So I won't accept his training with me getting brushed off too lightly. He used what I taught him. It worked out fine. But just bear in mind that no matter what I (or anyone else) showed him, it was still Shonie who pulled it off. So I really wish people would not state that I never trained anyone of note. Yes I know, I didn't take Shonie from a raw recruit, but back then, most UFC fighters already had an established background of some sort. Hell, Sakuraba has a tremendous and varied background as well. That is to be applauded.

The comment about me showing a BJJ guy leg locks on one of my instructional tapes is another example of me just getting the brush off. What was I supposed to do? Tell him, "No, I won't show you anything?" It may not mean much or anything to you guys now, but it meant something to me back then. Anytime anyone wants to learn something from me, it means something to me. So I guess my rambling point is, that I was good enough to impress an exceptionally good grappler back then, enough for him to learn stuff from me and want to put his name/face with mine. It was then, and still is, a big deal to me. I think the reason that so many BJJ guys are now using leglocks is because enough of them searched out competent guys to teach them the moves. I can attest to teaching many guys from BJJ as well as other arts, leglocks and other moves. Doesn't make me a big shot. Just makes me a coach.

Now let me address this, "Tony's guys don't compete" stuff. I hope no one gets mad at this, but that statement is patently false and has been since day one. Going back into the mid/late 1990's I trained guys who have competed at a variety of events. Do any of you remember the New York City Grappling Challenge? I trained a guy who wrestled in it and took second place. The Maine Skrimish? I trained a guy who won it. Funny thing, both of those men (Jerron Smith, Karl Doucet) had an "internet presence." Instead of getting congratulations of their performances, they got bashed and trashed. Now there was even a tourney held in Wisconsin by I believe, Jeff Osbourne. Please don't hold me to that as this was around 1996 and I may have his name wrong. I took three guys up there (Jerron being one of them). Jerron won his NHB type match. In the grappling only venue, they paired him up against one of my other wrestlers, so that was kinda tough. But nonetheless, they competed. Remember, this was in the early days and I did what I could do, considering I had to make a living and didn't have a school. Entering tourneys wasn't a focus of mine. But we did it.

As time went on, I trained people literally from all over the country and different parts of the world. Many didn't want to compete (sorry, but that's a fact). Kinda like going to a Bally's to workout doesn't mean you're forced to enter a powerlifting or bodybuilding contest. However, if someone was interested in going that route (competing), I did teach them. I ended up hooking up with Jason Godsey. Some of you may not of heard of him. He was a Pancrase fighter. I started working with him in the mid/late 90's. He didn't live in Chicago, but would come up for training, or on a few occassions, I would go down to Indy to give a seminar. As a matter of fact, one of my seminars was a Pancrase thing. The president of Pancrase was present. I know according to one of the posts here, teaching seminars doesn't impress you either. But I'm trying to establish that I was training fighters. They have to learn from me somehow! Not everyone can pack up all they own and move to Chicago. Jason must have thought highly enough of me to have me present and conducting the seminar for the President of Pancrase, who flew in from Japan. Now I don't want to sound like I'm asking for praise. Not in the least. I'm just asking for a simple acknowledgment that I had enough goods to deliver. Anyway, Jason trained with me and fought in Pancrase using the stuff I showed him along with his already honed skills. That's all I can say. Jason considered himself a catch wrestler as well. I believe he did an article/interview when he was in Australia stating that. He had also known an old catch wrestler named Joe Pazandak in his youth.

Naturally, I trained some guys who just entered local events. That to me is a great thing. Whether they win, whether they lose, they did what they wanted. But, every so often, I would get a more serious fighter/grappler come through. Ryan Stout was one of those. I believe I met him through Jason Godsey originally (please don't quote me on that). I know he already had fought in Pancrase. Well, he would come to Chicago, stay at my place, get his workouts in. At the time, he was living in Ohio. I would see him as often as possible. In 2001 he had a chance for a quite a nice fight. The IFC WC13 fight against a very good fighter, Marty Armendarez (please don't bash this fighter to try to diminish me/Ryan. Just bash me). Ryan won in a little over 2:30 of the first round by submission. I stand proud of that and of Ryan. continued next post
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The rest of it
Tony Cecchine said:
But not all is roses. I remember taking some guys who were relatively new to training with me (one guy had only one lesson. He flew in from Sweden to train with me)to an out of state tournament. I was telling one of wrestlers, Josh, who was with me for maybe 2 months, to relax. It's not a big deal. Let's have fun. So we drive 500 miles to Minnesota. The day of the tournament, who does Josh match up with? Sean Sherk!!!! LOL. Needless to say, Sean looked awesome. Josh and I laughed after he lost his match because there was nothing else to do. But, at least Josh can say he got on the mat in a tournament with a beast like Sean Sherk. My point, what I teach is certainly no magic bullet. It takes long, hard training to get good. That's the key.

I was out of action for all off 2002 and most of 2003 because of health issues which are a private matter. But when I got back to coaching it was like before, in that some people wanted to compete, some didn't. But that's with any school. I just want to make a few last points. I'm not going to list each and every person I have ever trained. Or each and every person that ever competed. But I believe NAGA was mentioned in this thread and I will address that.

Kosta Korres (who is seen on some of my tapes) has competed at Advanced NAGA and took second place to his training partner. Kosta learned his grappling from me and the boys at the gym. He also has won some other events, but I don't have the info handy. I know he lost some kind of mma match before I started training him. Brian Klaus trained with me for about a year and won first place in the intermediate NAGA Ohio State Grappling championship (I believe in 2007). Another student, Kelly (a girl) trained with me less than 6 months. She won first place in the beginner's bracket of the same event. She submitted both her opponents in around one minute. I worked with Augie Rodriguez, who's a member of my instructor program. I don't advertise that fact. Maybe I should? He's been in tons of gi and no-gi grappling events, including the Arnold Classic more than once. He usually competes in the Expert divisions at these tournaments. If someone attempts to discredit his training time with me because he also has a varied background, then you have to discredit his other coaches as well. Again, he chose to train with me. That cannot be denied or spun. I take it as a huge compliment when seasoned grapplers/fighters decide they want to train with me. It's a compliment and an honor. So is NAGA and the Arnold Classic acceptable? I don't want to sound like an ass. I'm being serious. No one has ever approached me that stated they wanted to train for ADCC, so there's nothing I can do about that. Someone wrote here that, "The competitive accomplishments of people claiming him as students are hardly impressive." Yes, indeed they are impressive. At least to me and those who competed in them. But this is how I'm played out on the internet. Never even an ounce of, "Congratulations". Never even an ounce of, "Ok, I was wrong." And it will continue. The UFC, NAGA, IFC, etc, etc. is meaningless to some of these internet people. That's their problem, not mine, frankly. But the more I get bashed, and the more people who do train under me get ridiculed, the less people are going to be wanting to expose themselves to that. I want state firmly and unequivocally, I am immensely proud of everyone I have ever trained. You want a gym full of trophies and awards, go to a bigger gym than mine. But if you want a coach who'll pour out everything I have even in the face of constant bahsing and smear campaigns, then check me out. I may not be the best gig in town, but damnit I'll sure try as hard as I can.

Guys, I don't claim to have a stable of awesome, ferocious, unbeatable studs. I have what I have and nothing more. But I'll go on record as saying I am damn proud of everyone I have ever trained, whether they became champions or couch potatoes. I'm basically a one man show. What troubles me is the fact that lies/myths get perpetuated. If any one of the people I have mentioned that I trained, told you (generally speaking) that they were trained by me for their events, you may say, "BS. Tony never trained anyone! I read it on the internet." But the truth is, I have trained people who have competed. Please remember, I have trained others as well that have won small, regional events too. I'm just not one that wants to always trump it up. That rests solely on me. I take the blame for not advertising the facts of who I trained/their accomplishments. But it's hard for me to take credit when it was their hard work that did it. Some guys fly in from all over to train with me. That's a terrific effort on their part, not mine. Some guys have been bashed on the net, even when they win, because they are associated with me. They don't deserve it, frankly. My God, Stanley Radwan and Lou Thesz get bashed because of me and they're dead! I just can't understand this.

Someone in this thread mentioned (paraphrasing), "What's the point of talking to Tony?" Well, that's the whole point. If you don't talk to me or contact me, you'll never get training. If everyone is waiting for someone else to do it first, it isn't going to happen. I'm not trying to sound like an a-hole. What I'm saying is, get to know me and find out if I have anything to offer. The best way to do that is directly with me. I feel it makes sense.

I'll take full responsibility for not getting the word out on people I've trained. That's just a personal hangup I have. I feel like I'm not standing on my own two feet if I name drop. I just thought that word would have spread enough on its own. Apparently, I was wrong. But I take pride in Shonie, Jason, Ryan, and everyone else I trained for events, whether they won or lost. For the record, I am involved in training an east coast fight team. I don't mention it. I don't advertise it. But I am doing my best to help these guys. All I ask everyone is to give them a fair shake and judge them based solely on their personal performance and attitude. Please don't dislike them based on their association with me once word spreads of them.

I know I probably left a lot out. I didn't come here to try to sell dvd's, or training, or anything like that. I just came I guess because....well because I've had enough.

I have no hard feelings towards anyone here. We don't know each other. I won't come back here because this forum seems like a terrific place for judo and such, and it certainly doesn't need to be trolled or disrupted by a flame war concerning me. Most people can find my email address online if needed. But I feel I've said enough. I won't get into personal mudslinging or anything of that sort, be it publicly or privately.

Thanks for reading,

Tony Cecchine
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I know of Augie Rodrigues. He is definatley one of the best grapplers in the mid-west and heads up Panda Grappling in Chicago. I believe h was in the RANKED top 5 or 10 if I remember.
For Augie to seek out Tony that really does say alot. I know Shonie is/was one of Augie's instructors.

My basis in sub-wrestling is catch style and I can verify that Tony know what he is doing from watching those tapes. He explaines the moves and the whys pretty well.
 
Do I win the thread? Have I answered the questions you had about his students? Can we get over the bullshit about Tony now? Tony made me a doubter into not a believer but someone I can see is legit and tries as hard as he can in that one post. I'm sorry tony for my doubts.
 
cecchine and matt furey have challenges to their credibility simply because they do not compete. doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about or can't fight. think your local high school wrestling coach is no good cause none of his students are in the ufc or elite competition? it's ridiculous.
 
I've picked up some nice techniques that Work for me against a variety of opponents from his videos.
 
I posted on this thread a long time ago, I'll reiterate: he might not be a bjj black belt equivalent ( I'd guess a purple belt + a lot of unorthodox technique) but his videos are excellent and it's clear that he is a humble, legit guy.
 
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