I was looking at the "All Time GOAT" Poll and everyone was highly valuing "Title Defenses" which DOES matter but shouldn't be the MAIN argument against many fighters and their legacies.
We need to stop this BJ Penn vs Khabib Lightweight GOAT and Jose Aldo vs Volk Featherweight GOAT debates
The problem with that metric is that the variance in WHEN they got the title shot:
BJ Penn- 2 Fights before Title shot
Jose Aldo- Got the UFC belt from the jump(Worked his way from WEC but still)
Anderson Silva - Got a title shot after ONE fight in the UFC
Jon Jones- 3 Fights before Title Fight(Short Notice)
GSP - 4 Fights(3 Fights for Long Reign)
Demetrious Johnson- 2 Fights(Flyweight Tournament)
Tim Sylvia - 2 Fights Before Title shot
Anthony Pettis- 2 Fights before Title Shot
and So forth
On the other hand you got other great fighters who had to win FAR more fights before the title but are often LEFT OUT because they got their titles FAR later Legacy Wise
Khabib - 9 Fights Before Title Shot
Max Holloway - 9 Fights Before Title Shot
Charles Oliviera- 7 Fights Before Title Shot
This being the overall title defense stats:
Title Defenses - Fight Matrix
Most consecutive UFC title defenses Last Updated: 03/14/2024 Fighter Streak Timeframe Demetrious Johnson 11 2013-2017 Anderson Silva 10 2007-2012 Georges St. Pierre 9 2008-2013 (relinquished title) Jon Jones 8, 3 2011-2015 (relinquished), 2019-2020 (relinquished) Jose Aldo * 7 2011-2014...www.fightmatrix.com
Also, the arguement about "You face the best when you're the champion", that is true however how do we know they couldnt beat those contenders if they had gotten the title shot after 2-3 fights? Is anyone really stopping Khabib or Max during their 6+ win streak if they got the title shot after 2 or 3 fights like the rest?
I don't particularly care about Khabib. Don't fucking put words into my mouth. And your literal-mindedness shows that you belong to the type of fan that I despise. I like to watch fights, while you fat autistic nerds* are obsessed with records.Creating mental gymnastics to put guys like Khabib in the conversation with Jones, GSP and Silva is pretty autistic, to be fair.
Far from nerdy though because nerds tend to be smart and this isn't particularly smart.
Ahh yes, the old resorting to insults because someone disagrees with you.I don't particularly care about Khabib. Don't fucking put words into my mouth. And your literal-mindedness shows that you belong to the type of fan that I despise. I like to watch fights, while you fat autistic nerds* are obsessed with records.
*Nerdiness has nothing to do with inteligence, fyi.
Lol You're a liar. Jon Jones had like 10 fights in the ufc undefeated before he got a title shot and that was in a 3 year time span.I was looking at the "All Time GOAT" Poll and everyone was highly valuing "Title Defenses" which DOES matter but shouldn't be the MAIN argument against many fighters and their legacies.
We need to stop this BJ Penn vs Khabib Lightweight GOAT and Jose Aldo vs Volk Featherweight GOAT debates
The problem with that metric is that the variance in WHEN they got the title shot:
BJ Penn- 2 Fights before Title shot
Jose Aldo- Got the UFC belt from the jump(Worked his way from WEC but still)
Anderson Silva - Got a title shot after ONE fight in the UFC
Jon Jones- 3 Fights before Title Fight(Short Notice)
GSP - 4 Fights(3 Fights for Long Reign)
Demetrious Johnson- 2 Fights(Flyweight Tournament)
Tim Sylvia - 2 Fights Before Title shot
Anthony Pettis- 2 Fights before Title Shot
and So forth
On the other hand you got other great fighters who had to win FAR more fights before the title but are often LEFT OUT because they got their titles FAR later Legacy Wise
Khabib - 9 Fights Before Title Shot
Max Holloway - 9 Fights Before Title Shot
Charles Oliviera- 7 Fights Before Title Shot
This being the overall title defense stats:
Title Defenses - Fight Matrix
Most consecutive UFC title defenses Last Updated: 03/14/2024 Fighter Streak Timeframe Demetrious Johnson 11 2013-2017 Anderson Silva 10 2007-2012 Georges St. Pierre 9 2008-2013 (relinquished title) Jon Jones 8, 3 2011-2015 (relinquished), 2019-2020 (relinquished) Jose Aldo * 7 2011-2014...www.fightmatrix.com
Also, the arguement about "You face the best when you're the champion", that is true however how do we know they couldnt beat those contenders if they had gotten the title shot after 2-3 fights? Is anyone really stopping Khabib or Max during their 6+ win streak if they got the title shot after 2 or 3 fights like the rest?
It was 7 fights but still closer than the 3 the TS is claiming.Lol You're a liar. Jon Jones had like 10 fights in the ufc undefeated before he got a title shot and that was in a 3 year time span.
It was 7 in totality, however he has a DQ loss in the middle so i was saying "3" as i was taking that as a reset of his streak from the loss to get to the title shot.Lol You're a liar. Jon Jones had like 10 fights in the ufc undefeated before he got a title shot and that was in a 3 year time span.
That's not how you worded it in the OP. You said he had 3 fights before his title fight.It was 7 in totality, however he has a DQ loss in the middle so i was saying "3" as i was taking that as a reset of his streak from the loss to get to the title shot.
A caveat yes, but a loss in the middle of a streak does bring you down the ladder(even if its a faulty dumb one).
Is Khabib in fight # 8 beating BJ Penn? Dude got gifted a decision against Gleison who is much worse, 10 fights after that.That is true however how do we know they couldnt beat those contenders if they had gotten the title shot after 2-3 fights? Is anyone really stopping Khabib or Max during their 6+ win streak if they got the title shot after 2 or 3 fights like the rest?
Its really how we determine that metric i think
That's my point.So how bout win streaks like Tony Ferg and Benny D? Are those the most underrated stats in UFC History?
They never got a title shot, but it they did earlier then they would've racked up 10 title defenses easily.
That's a baseless claim regarding Tony and I'm unquestionably one of his biggest fans on this website.That's my point.
In any other era or division really. Tony ferguson would have rattled off possibly a 7-9 fight title defense streak if he got the same title shot opportunity and if Conor didn't hold up the division for years. But now he's just a sad example of what happens when you don't have the same opportunity as the other people i listed.
My point isnt dismissing title defenses its obviously important, its the fact that there's way too MUCH value on something some people have/had a far far longer road to get too(or never even had the opprotunity to get too such as in Benny/Tony's case)
Outside of analyzing a division based on objective stats such as average age, depth, and turnovers within the top ten ranks (which I've already done here for LW to HW), anything else is purely subjective.That "top 10 wins" stat doesn't address poor quality divisions
It also discredits title defenses with undeserving challengers; accounting for both of those variables makes divisional GOAT debates a lot more accurate.it only gives additional credit for high quality non title matches.
That's nothing more than an assumption on your part. As someone who actually went through every champions' resumes it's not an exception, but a frequent occurrence.It is almost a given that title defenses are top 10 wins with some very rare exceptions(like Jones v Sonnen which you mentioned)
Another assumption and opinion on your part.the difference between top 10 wins and normal title defense counting is neglible.
By that logic, the stat of title defenses doesn't discern the quality of a division either, so the fact that you're using that as a point in your argument is contradictory.The top 10 stat is useless at discerning a divisions quality.
Maybe some day you'll come up with something new to say, since that's literally the only thing you can hate Khabib for. But that horse has been dead for almost a decade, maybe it's time to stop hitting him?Maybe if Khabib didn’t go life and death with Gleison Tibau he would have gotten a shot sooner.