The origins of Jiu-Jitsu and other grappling arts

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Deleted member 245586, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. Combat Squirrel

    Combat Squirrel Blue Belt

    Jun 23, 2013
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    People often mistake the oldest known documentation of something for the origin of something.

    The oldest skeletons classified as Homo sapiens are estimated 200.000 years old. It is also estimated that Homo sapiens came to China 40.000 years ago. (Sorce: Wiki)

    I'm fairly certain somebody has figured out joint locks in the 160.000 years beteween.

    Also is not a reference you want to make when discussing history, given the whole family has a somewhat shady reputation.
  2. tenniswhiz

    tenniswhiz Steel Belt

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Santa Monica
    Wow, Alexander the Great.... so what came first? The spanakopita or the samosa?
  3. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Artemis BJJ Co-Founder

    Mar 4, 2004
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    Bristol, UK
    I am sure that humans have been grappling since before the species came down from the trees, so to mark the origin point of that is probably impossible.

    In terms of a documented system of martial arts, the oldest example I can think of is Beni Hasan in Egypt, a series of wrestling murals depicting different techniques that dates back to around 1950BCE:


    I'm sure wrestling was around before that too. For example, there are limestone plaques and bronze jars, both depicting wrestlers, from the Nintu Temple VI archaeoligcal site (in what used to be Sumeria, located in modern-day Iraq). They date from as far back as 3000 BCE. You can probably find similar relics showing representations of boxing.
  4. aries

    aries Silver Belt

    Feb 21, 2004
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    He is talking about the origins of Jiu Jitsu not all martial arts.
  5. barnowl

    barnowl Green Belt

    Jan 13, 2010
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    There is so much historically wrong in that paragraph.
  6. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

    Nov 2, 2010
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    The City of Angels
    Two very serious misconceptions are going on here.

    1) Grappling is practically instinctual. A primal thing. Puppies grapple. We were grappling and wrestling each other since before we were homo sapiens. Forms of wrestling have spontaneously evolved in nearly every documented culture on the planet. There is no single origin of grappling.

    2) The story that martial arts started with Da Mo at Shaolin is HEAVILY misintrepreted. The original story merely explains that Da Mo, or Bodhidharma, found the buddhist monks at Shaolin to be very weak and frail from excessive sitting meditation and insufficient food and exercise. What he taught them was not martial arts. It was actually much closer to what we'd call yoga or hard qigong these days. Da Mo is credited with creating Shaolin Gongfu, but he wasn't a martial artist and never taught martial arts. He taught exercise, strength training, posture, body mechanics, and meditation through physical labor and activity in addition to static passive meditation.

    Where this changed is that some of Da Mo's students, as well as many disciples at the temple over the centuries, were military veterans who were devoting the second half of their lives to monastic pursuits. These guys took the exercise (yoga) regimen that Da Mo taught, and combined it with unarmed and armed fighting drills that they utilized during their military time. This is what evolved into Shaolin Gongfu.
  7. spiderguarda

    spiderguarda Orange Belt

    Aug 27, 2013
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    Who is the ring girl in your avatar? Pretty cool.

    So many cultures have wrestling. Africa has a few wrestling arts and you can search
    Youtube. The Mongols have a wrestling art. Japan was influenced by China but jiujitsu has its origins in Sumo and grappling in armour. Even sword arts, you can see they went to an more upright stance after the Warring State era of clans vying for supremacy. I know two arts that mention the transition to a more upright stance instead of a deeper stance where you're torso is not facing your opponent which minimizes your torso to spears, arrows, and sword attacks. I don't believe Jiujitsu came from India via China. The Japanese may have adopted grapping from the Chinese. This page has a picture of Tang wrestlers and looks somewhat similar to Sumo.

    If it did, there is a Chinese standing grappling art called Shuai jiao.

    You can check Youtube and find demonstrations of jiujitsu styles which are relatively new compared to older Japanese martial traditions.
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  9. RTD1

    RTD1 Blue Belt

    Dec 14, 2013
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    Ok that's just slightly creepy.
  10. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

    Sep 5, 2012
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    You should see the hot girl investigation thread on f7.
  11. Edison Carasio

    Edison Carasio Excellence of execution belt Platinum Member

    Feb 13, 2007
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    This should have been first post.
  12. Metroid82

    Metroid82 White Belt

    Mar 3, 2018
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    Queens, NY
    Hi all, new here to the group. Unable to create my own thread yet. So I need to hijack this one momentarily. I am considering taking either Dentokan Aiki jiu jitsu or Sosuishi-ryu jiu Jitsu, which both dojos are near me. I am going from a Judo background into either one of these disciplines and I was wondering if anyone can provide some insight on what exactly are the differences between these 2 JJJ styles. What does one do that the other does and vice versa. Yes, I also tried googling this and it wasn't very informative in regards to that question. Google only gives a lot of history about where they came from and stuff like that.

    Thank You
  13. CFGroup

    CFGroup Green Belt

    Jun 18, 2013
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    Which ever takes hard Ukemi and does Koshi....

    If it's out of shape fat dudes in skirts avoid!

    A Judo buddy back east is a Judo and Aikido Shodan and his technique is super slick and can take neck breaking Ukemi, so if you see them taking Judo hard breakfalls, throwing with reaps and hips, there's probably some good technical detail to learn.

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