The Missing Puzzle Piece: Who was one attribute away from GREATNESS/GOAT status?

Kampmann and the ability to impose his game plan.

It's like every fight was fought where his opponent was strongest, and still did well (except pre usada Hendricks).
 
Jones without drug tests.

Seriously unquestionable goat, but his literally unparalleled ability to fail drug tests leaves out of the conversation for most(except to point out the aforementioned fact).
 
WoozyFailGuy said:
FIGHT IQ:
Woodley
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Woodley did what he could with his skillset.
Woodley does not have the cardio to implement long term planning.

In all his losses , I don't see anything he could have done to win.

He's not built to win vs grinding cardio wrestlers like Colby, Rory or Usman.
No amount of gameplanning and fight iq could change that.
 
m249viking said:
Spencer Fisher needed TDD in the worst way. I’m having a difficult time thinking of someone easier to take down.
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Bas has 0% TDD in the Ufc.

Bloke did not even understand thenidea of TDD
 
Matt Hamill. Would have been great, if only he could just hear his corner's instructions :)
 
Crocop sure needs a mention, Chin was also his downfall i think? He also needed his youth to keep agile since he couldn't take shots he had to get out of the way of them.
 
Phil Davis would have been the 2nd greatest MMA fighter if he had even decent standup early in his career.
 
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The only reason Chael Sonnen wasn't champion is because of lack of submission defense.
 
i think it's more impressive that a lot of those people became great even without the attribute. i wouldn't put BJ Penn in cardio, his cardio was fine when he was with the Marinovichs. it's his lack of discipline and relying so heavily on his god given talents that bit him in the ass. Mark Hunt is the same. he didn't really lose a lot because of his TDD, he lost a lot because he wasn't disciplined enough to get better. the 2 biggest fights he lost in UFC was against Werdum and JDS who both dropped him with strikes and finished him with GnP. also Mark Hunt from Pride was literally the same as Mark Hunt in UFC, he never evolved. even his striking game kind of devolved because he stopped using low kicks and became almost exclusively a puncher.

i would put Cain in "better striking defense". if he had that he wouldn't have gotten totalled by Werdum or JDS the first time.

i don't know how you can rank Zabit. he didn't even fight anyone good besides Kattar. who knows it's not like he fought Max or Volk and only lost because he gassed. for all we know he could have a glass chin, no ground game, and shit wrestling vs the elite.
 
linvillegorge said:
If you went into a lab to create a perfect MMA fighter you'd come out with something strongly resembling Aaron Pico. Except Aaron Pico has a worse chin than late stage Chuck.
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chaos_36 said:
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Added both! I'll admit, I totally spaced on Spencer Fisher but remember that finish.
Masturbin said:
Woodley did what he could with his skillset.
Woodley does not have the cardio to implement long term planning.

In all his losses , I don't see anything he could have done to win.

He's not built to win vs grinding cardio wrestlers like Colby, Rory or Usman.
No amount of gameplanning and fight iq could change that.
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Hew was gunshy in some of the worst possible times while having a rock solid chin. He's the only fighter whose corner I'd hear saying "You have to hit him!" though I can see that that might not exactly be fight IQ.
Pancake Sprawl said:
i think it's more impressive that a lot of those people became great even without the attribute. i wouldn't put BJ Penn in cardio, his cardio was fine when he was with the Marinovichs. it's his lack of discipline and relying so heavily on his god given talents that bit him in the ass. Mark Hunt is the same. he didn't really lose a lot because of his TDD, he lost a lot because he wasn't disciplined enough to get better. the 2 biggest fights he lost in UFC was against Werdum and JDS who both dropped him with strikes and finished him with GnP. also Mark Hunt from Pride was literally the same as Mark Hunt in UFC, he never evolved. even his striking game kind of devolved because he stopped using low kicks and became almost exclusively a puncher.

i would put Cain in "better striking defense". if he had that he wouldn't have gotten totalled by Werdum or JDS the first time.

i don't know how you can rank Zabit. he didn't even fight anyone good besides Kattar. who knows it's not like he fought Max or Volk and only lost because he gassed. for all we know he could have a glass chin, no ground game, and shit wrestling vs the elite.
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I never understood why BJ split from Marinovich. His fights against Kenflo and Diego were him at his absolute best.
As for Zabit, I think it's fair to rate what we saw instead of what we didn't see, no? It was his one glaring weakness in a relatively short career (because of the division ducking him). Good point about Hunt, but I would say his more embarassing losses like against McCorkle show his true weakness, while getting KO'd at HW just sort of happens.
doggo said:
Crocop sure needs a mention, Chin was also his downfall i think? He also needed his youth to keep agile since he couldn't take shots he had to get out of the way of them.
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Nah, Mirko's downfall was father time. The shots he got KO'd with earlier in his career like Randleman would KO anyone, later it was just a career of 150+ fights taking its toll. Mirko was just unlucky that his prime was at the same time as Fedor's.
sutherland said:
Shogun knees
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Added! I made this account to argue with people about Shogun vs Machida 1!
 
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Shogun and Cain achieved greatness anyway
 
Fight Professor said:
Cain - common sense in training
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Although I think its also partly that Cain's style is simply very unforgiving, Shogun in Pride fought a similar way and suffered similar injury problems.

That kind of hyper aggressive scrambling style seems like its bad for injuries, I'd guess because often you get up wrestling whilst off balance due to transitions from striking.

Khabib I think you could argue looked like he might suffer the same fate but switched his style up, less relentless, less wild in the grappling.
 
yoel - aggressiveness
yan - fight iq
 
If Tatiana Suarez wasn’t so prone to injury, I’m 100% sure she would have been a champion by now and we would be at a loss when thinking of people who could beat her…
 
I like your list TS. I would add Conor and Aldo under cardio issue and Max Holloway under Power Issue. All three were great fighters, but still were lacking those attribute. Fix that for them and they might reach GSP/Anderson/Jones level of greatness.
 
If Struve could manage distance he'd have been one of the all time greats. If that guy boxed like Nate, or Kickboxed like Jones he could have been a 7' tall 300 lb monster by his 30s. Instead he had like a dozen concussions by his 30s.
 
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