The GOAT UFC Fighter Has To Be...

Mikey Palangio said:
Jon Jones is the only legitimate UFC champ, in my opinion. Every other champ is suspect to me.

So, this is not an ignoring Jon Jones thread. I just believe somebody who can duplicate that in the LW & HW divisions who easily replace Jon Jones as GOAT, because those divisions have never been dominated in the UFC.

That is all.
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Nobody dominated LHW until Jones came along. The title was changing hands every other fight. When Tito had it, he was ducking Chuck and there were too many legit LHWs in Pride:

sherdog_championship_history_lightheavyweight_r08.png
 
Mikey Palangio said:
The "shallowness" is only your opinion.

If you can beat Cain, JDS, Stipe, Overreem, Werdum. You are in contention for GOAT status.
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Yeah and the competition drops significantly once you get pass those guys.

You can deny all you want, but the reality is that majority of fighters in HW are old as fuck and less skilled compare to lighter guys.
 
johncola said:
You've created a paradox there:

If a division's strength is determined by the max number of title defenses a champion has had, then the HW or LW division would become progressively weaker each time the champion in question defends.


Instead, how about you just judge fighters by how skillful they are?
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That is the underlying message on this discussion. I am essentially saying that a fighter who can dominate the HW and LW division would have to be the most skilled fighter the UFC has ever seen, because no UFC fighter has yet to dominate these divisions.

They are the toughest divisions to conquer. In HW, one punch can end it all, so you either have to be flawless or have a godly chin, better to have both. In LW, one punch can end it all, and there is a continuous infusion of savage after savage.
 
Mikey Palangio said:
That is the underlying message on this discussion. I am essentially saying that a fighter who can dominate the HW and LW division would have to be the most skilled fighter the UFC has ever seen, because no UFC fighter has yet to dominate these divisions.

They are the toughest divisions to conquer. In HW, one punch can end it all, so you either have to be flawless or have a godly chin, better to have both. In LW, one punch can end it all, and there is a continuous infusion of savage after savage.
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But you're arguing for fighters' skills in an indirect way. A direct way would be "Fighter A is this good at X and this good at Y and this good at Z". That's how I assess fighters.

But you're saying "Fighter A has accomplished this statistic, and thus he's probably this good at X and this good at Y and this good at Z". That's an indirect argument. It's bad for the same reason ad hominem arguments are bad (e.g. telling someone they're wrong in an argument because they have a shit job, instead of just explaining to them how they're wrong).
 
I don't see anybody in the current HW division who is poised to do this. I think JDS will beat Stipe and if not then Cain will. At LW, Khabib-Conor-Ferguson have each other to fight but whoever beats the other two will have a smooth sailing from then on wards.
 
YellowBaneno said:
HW is the shallowest division next to female FW.

If you are to discuss P4P ranking, HW shouldn't even be brought into the conversation.
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Clear Winner said:
Nobody dominated LHW until Jones came along. The title was changing hands every other fight. When Tito had it, he was ducking Chuck and there were too many legit LHWs in Pride:

sherdog_championship_history_lightheavyweight_r08.png
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Tito defended 5 times.
 
johncola said:
But you're arguing for fighters' skills in an indirect way. A direct way would be "Fighter A is this good at X and this good at Y and this good at Z". That's how I assess fighters.

But you're saying "Fighter A has accomplished this statistic, and thus he's probably this good at X and this good at Y and this good at Z". That's an indirect argument. It's bad for the same reason ad hominem arguments are bad (e.g. telling someone they're wrong in an argument because they have a shit job, instead of just explaining to them how they're wrong).
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This is not a well thought out academic essay. It is just hypothetical barbershop discussion.

All I am saying is that a hypothetical HW or LW who is able to dominate those respective division, would surely have to be considered P4P GOAT on account that those divisions have never been dominated.

I am not arguing about who is the current GOAT. But I am saying the ultimate UFC GOAT will come from the HW and LW divisions.
 
That's a pretty flawed way of determining the GOAT.

Lack of a dominant LW and HW champion could easily be nothing more than a matter of circumstance rather than proof those divisions are tougher in general. It might be that other divisions are 'tougher', but that the rise of an occasional dominant champ speaks more to the abilities of that person rather than the difficulity of the division as a whole.
 
Clear Winner said:
I'd actually say the current top 10 at HW is the best it's ever been.

Nothing but killers on that list
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Loss to fooking Lesnar (overturned or not) Hunto is #8
4 losing streak AA is #9
3 losing streak Browne is #10

Top 5/6 is legit, the rest of the ranked division (7 to 15) is weak af IMO
 
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qw3rty said:
3 losing streak Hunto is #8 (and one of them is fooking Lesnar, overturned or not)
4 losing streak AA is #9
3 losing streak Browne is #10

Top 5/6 is legit, the rest of the ranked division (7 to 15) is weak af IMO
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Hunt isn't on a losing streak. 2 wins and a NC.

Arlovski looks bad, but not as bad when you see who he lost to, in the champ, a future champ and the guy who almost finished the champ. He's got no chin, but he's an all time top HW, no doubt about that.

Compare the curent list to any other HW top 10 ever. Better rounded fighters and almost all have 1 punch KO power
 
Clear Winner said:
{<huh} point being?

I already said that he was actively avoiding Chuck at the time and didn't have to fight the best in the world, because a lot were in Pride.
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The point is that he defended 5 times in the UFC, so after Jon Jones, he is arguably the second best UFC LHW to date.
 
Clear Winner said:
Hunt isn't on a losing streak. 2 wins and a NC.

Arlovski looks bad, but not as bad when you see who he lost to, in the champ, a future champ and the guy who almost finished the champ. He's got no chin, but he's an all time top HW, no doubt about that.

Compare the curent list to any other HW top 10 ever. Better rounded fighters and almost all have 1 punch KO power
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My bad on Hunt, don't know what I saw in the UFC page lol, looked bad against Lesnar though
 
Mikey Palangio said:
Either a heavyweight or a lightweight who has defended the belt 5 or more times. Historically, it has yet to be done, so these two divisions must be the toughest in the UFC.

Which ever HW or LW who can accomplish this, should automatically be considered P4P UFC GOAT.

McGregor needs to stop chasing that Mayweather fight, because defending the 155 belt 5 or more times is the toughest challenge in front of him. That could cement him as the UFC GOAT.
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LHW is currently super weak and has been for the past 5 years. WW and LW have consistently been the 2 toughest hands down, all though MW is currently a shark-tank.

Either way, it's GSP.

Dominated the toughest weight class, every fight (not including Serra) was against the No. 1 Contender, has 0 avenged losses, dominated Jake Shields (who beat Woodley, Condit, Maia, & Hendo), and he never failed a drug test.

Pure class, GSP is the undisputed GOAT and regardless if he loses in his comeback no-one has done what he has done in this sport.
 
The GOAT UFC Fighter Has To Be... One of the HW champs.
 
JustBleed69 said:
LHW is currently super weak and has been for the past 5 years. WW and LW have consistently been the 2 toughest hands down, all though MW is currently a shark-tank.

Either way, it's GSP.

Dominated the toughest weight class, every fight (not including Serra) was against the No. 1 Contender, has 0 avenged losses, dominated Jake Shields (who beat Woodley, Condit, Maia, & Hendo), and he never failed a drug test.

Pure class, GSP is the undisputed GOAT and regardless if he loses in his comeback no-one has done what he has done in this sport.
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My argument is more hypothetical.

As things stand, the UFC HW and LW have no history of a dominant champ, I should also add the MW division, because Anderson Silva to date has been the only one with more than 5 defenses.

To dominate in either the HW, LW and MW, your skills have to be next level, because nobody dominates these 3 divisions (except for Anderson Silva in MW).
 
JustBleed69 said:
LHW is currently super weak and has been for the past 5 years. WW and LW have consistently been the 2 toughest hands down, all though MW is currently a shark-tank.

Either way, it's GSP.
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he was a very good fighter but not GOAT... not to mention his last 6 or 7 fights went to judges!! lost the nickname "rush" thats for sure....
 
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