The "Dutch Style" of Kickboxing

[Kid Liquid]

No, not really. Overeem is certainly a Dutch Thai boxer, but his style is not really the Dutch style, if you know what I mean. He's not a combination puncher, he doesn't throw a huge amount of kicks or punches in general, and his main weapon is his clinch and knees. The Dutch style is more about combination boxing used to set up devastating low kicks, as well as using the clinch to shove your opponent off-balance and set up a high kick. Overeem doesn't do either of those things.

Melvin Manhoef is a much better example of the Dutch style being used effectively in MMA. He's not the best possible example, because his record isn't stellar, but I think in the future you'll likely see more skilled European kickboxers transition into MMA before it's too late in their careers.

The situation is similar to that of wrestlers in the US. There's not much of a career to be had wrestling, so people with good wrestling pedigrees now very often move into MMA. As the big kickboxing organizations kind of fall apart, you might very well see more skilled kickboxers deciding that MMA is the place to be. I'd love to see it.

Edit: Although I'd also really like to see kickboxing survive and make a comeback.

thanks for the breakdown man, great comparison to Wrestling in the US.

 

[stinkoman]

I think kickboxing marketed right would give be a great draw these days.Ive seen too many MMA fights thats were just sloppy kickboxing in cage might as well cut out the middle man.If k1 one was promoted right in america I think it would been huge.

 

[Kid Liquid]

Like Bas Rutten says, if K1 is ever going to pop off in America, we'll need to see a champion come from the USA. As simple as that.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Id love to see k1 take off in america, and could if it gets the right marketing and money behind it !..everyone knows that standup is really the best part of mma! ;-)

 

[CharmingCritic]

I don't agree that its the best. Its a style that's had success in the past, but we've never seen real MT in mma, just cheap imitations. Not fair to say the Dutch style is better. More Rogan bullshit.

Same thing w/ boxing. Haven't really seen a proper boxer come into MMA and try to make a real run at it.

 

[buhriyon]

Dutch style kickboxing is essentially muay thai style kicks and knees, with more of a western boxing style guard and punches. So instead of a square traditional muay thai stance you have more of a western boxing type stance and punching combos.

 

[Ryukyu Damashi]

Dutch style kickboxing is essentially muay thai style kicks and knees, with more of a western boxing style guard and punches. So instead of a square traditional muay thai stance you have more of a western boxing type stance and punching combos.

I'd say the kicks are more like Kyokyushin than Muay Thai.

 

[Vincent86]

Most dutch K-1 fighters have also played soccer for an amount of time in their youth.
Soccer is our biggest sport.

this is obviously the right asnwer, it's because of the deadly sport soccer

 

[DaGenius]

I don't agree that its the best. Its a style that's had success in the past, but we've never seen real MT in mma, just cheap imitations. Not fair to say the Dutch style is better. More Rogan bullshit.

Same thing w/ boxing. Haven't really seen a proper boxer come into MMA and try to make a real run at it.

You are correct to call Rogan out on BS.

 

[AboFatima]

How could distinguish between typical kickboxing and Dutch kickboxing?

 

[Woodkid***]

While I do think that Dutch Kickboxing is a better style suited for MMA, you cannot use it's dominance in K1 to prove it's better than traditional Muay Thai. K1 doesn't allow elbows, two-handed knees, and also doesn't score more points for kicks. Both styles generally come with different rulesets.

That being said, Dutch Kickboxing is a bit more boxing oriented and offers greater protection to the fighter's centerline (since most traditional Thai fighters choose to stand in a more squared position). Personally, in a MMA fight, I'd elect to use boxing mixed in with elbows (lethal combo IMO) with the occasional low kicks but, as history has shown us, it's not the art, it's the practitioner that matters.

This right here ^

K-1 pretty much fucked the thais with anti clinching rules and taking away their stronger tools.

Here's a personification of the dutch style imo:


Good hands with kicks finishing his combos.

 

[Jukai]

You guys made me go back and watch some old K1 matches, thanks, my productivity at work is down to zero.

I just watched Crocop vs Hug (actually pretty great match) and I was wondering... what type of kickboxing did Crocop train in? Anyone know what style he did? He's too flat flooted for American style, doesn't look like MT with a lack of lowkicks and elbows, doesn't throw any combinations like a dutch stylist, and I know he hasn't done any kyokushin... which leaves me with, well, a feeling of confusion.

I know he's got a TKD blackbelt and he loves his axe kicks and high roundhouse kicks, but I figure if he was a pure TKD guy, a lot more TKD practitioners would be clamoring over him. So what exactly is he? I know his style is his own of sorts, I'm just wondering if anyone knows details about where he trained and what style they primarily worked on.

edit: no worries, almighty google helped me out. He's actually a relatively weird hybrid of TKD and MT, even though he seems to avoid the leg kicks and is flat flooted... I guess that does explain his strong, no combo hands and tendency to kick. Shocking you don't hear more people on the internet say "BUT--- BUT--- BUT--- CROCOP USED TAEKWONDO!!!"

 

[shinkyoku]

You guys made me go back and watch some old K1 matches, thanks, my productivity at work is down to zero.

I just watched Crocop vs Hug (actually pretty great match) and I was wondering... what type of kickboxing did Crocop train in? Anyone know what style he did? He's too flat flooted for American style, doesn't look like MT with a lack of lowkicks and elbows, doesn't throw any combinations like a dutch stylist, and I know he hasn't done any kyokushin... which leaves me with, well, a feeling of confusion.

I know he's got a TKD blackbelt and he loves his axe kicks and high roundhouse kicks, but I figure if he was a pure TKD guy, a lot more TKD practitioners would be clamoring over him. So what exactly is he? I know his style is his own of sorts, I'm just wondering if anyone knows details about where he trained and what style they primarily worked on.

Crocops main trainer by then (later they had a big falling out) was Branco Cikatic (also winner of the first k-1 ever). Cikatic was the one who used his connections to get Mirco into k-1, even though he was unknown and had no real record.

Branco Cikatic started out in shotokan, switched to TKD (or if it was tkd THEN shotokan), then went into boxing (even went pro for a short while, even though I never been able to find an official record), then "american" kicboxing (no lowkicks, long silky pants), then went to train dutch kickboxing in holland (in the Meijiro gym -if I remember right).
So whatever eclectic mix his teaching to a young crocop was, is anyone's guess.

 

[Jukai]

Crocops main trainer by then (later they had a big falling out) was Branco Cikatic (also winner of the first k-1 ever). Cikatic was the one who used his connections to get Mirco into k-1, even though he was unknown and had no real record.

Branco Cikatic started out in shotokan, switched to TKD (or if it was tkd THEN shotokan), then went into boxing (even went pro for a short while, even though I never been able to find an official record), then "american" kicboxing (no lowkicks, long silky pants), then went to train dutch kickboxing in holland (in the Meijiro gym -if I remember right).
So whatever eclectic mix his teaching to a young crocop was, is anyone's guess.

LOL welp, I said half MT/half TKD because someone called Cikatic a "Muay Thai master."

Whoops.

So he's a mix of TKD and whatever the hell Branco teaches. I'm not going to really count the training Cro Cop took after the fallout because apparently it didn't work.

Thanks for the info, shinkyoku, as always.

 

[Vincent86]

How could distinguish between typical kickboxing and Dutch kickboxing?

there is no typical kickboxing

 

[Muay o Muay]

In the uk what we know as ' kick boxing' is what i have always thought of as being the same as american kick boxing ie more karate & tkd influenced with flashy kicks, and no kicks below the waist, no clinch or knees, practioners usually were shiny trousers and pads which cover the whole foot even at pro level.

Dutch kickboxing has a lot more thai influence and like thai cuts out a lot of the flashy technique in favor of simpler more effective techniques

 

[swamp_fist]

This right here ^

K-1 pretty much fucked the thais with anti clinching rules and taking away their stronger tools.

Here's a personification of the dutch style imo:


Good hands with kicks finishing his combos.

And what an example - Dude's a hella pressure fighter! And as has been discussed, mostly low kicks and head kicks with very few middles. But did anyone else notice the one middle kick shown in this highlight reel (at about 8:02) looked like it may have wrecked his opponent's arm?

 

[Ramzemaar]

Coming from someone who has been 'kickboxing' in the Netherlands since age 15 I''ll shine some light on the subject from my perspective..

First of all most gyms here call it ''thaiboxing''. Not kickboxing or muay thai. It's basically muay thai but with the hands and 'constant pressure' style of western boxing if you understand what I mean. Dutch gyms put a ton of emphasis on low kicks and in general the combo's target up to three different targets in one go to constantly try and expose that weak spot. A lot of the combo's end with low kicks because it gives you time to move out of the danger zone before your opponent recovers.

Generally it's taught not to go for high or flashy kicks unless you set them up with the hands.. so there's little of that high kick trading you see going on in thai fights. That however could have something to do with Dutch people generally being much taller than Thais.

Unlike what I've been reading in this thread most of the gyms actually spend a lot of time on clinch work.. little to no trips though, just pulling people off balance and placing a well aimed knee before pushing them off.

 

[Azam]

Dutch kickboxing stems from kyokushin karate/boxing/muay thai. The fathers of dutch kickboxing were all former kyokushin karateka, more specifically you could say dutch kickboxing evolved from the teachings of kenji kurosaki.

For all of those who do not know this man, he was a kyokushin karateka from Sosai Oyama's era, who also attended goju-ryu classes with sosai oyama & was their with him during the start of kyokushinkaikan & he developed his own kickboxing style, which was a blend of judo, muay thai & kyokushin karate at Mejiro Gym (his gym) in tokyo, he taught this style to Jon Bluming who was also a kyokushin karateka & judoka (and widely regarded as the forefather of european mma) - many of Jon Blumings students like Jaan Plas (whose students include peter aerts, Ivan Hippolyte, Rob Kaman, Andre Mannaart) & others, went to kenji kurosaki gym in tokyo & learnt his style.

They went back to the netherlands & started teaching his style with his permission and they also made some adjusements - that is how dutch kickboxing was formed. Notable students of kenji kurosaki include fujiwara & fujihara.

Kenji Kurosaki was also one of the three kyokushin fighters that travelled to Thailand during the 60's, when the thai's challenged them to a fight, among the fighters that went were also Tadashi Nakamura and Akio Fujihira.

 

[MidNightClub]

man it's pretty cool about learning a little history of how all these styles came about.

and as for the pure dutch kickboxers, i noticed that most of them tend to be really explosive. guys like hoost, hari, gokhan saki, manheof, robin van rossmalen etc. i guess it's cause they emphasis on bursting those combos out.