Strike 2 Trump, do you want to be hung with the banksters when we take our country back?

[IndyCovaHart]

 

[Greoric]

Now you sound like @Greoric.

Doesn't the expansion of credit help the economy? More people in loans means more outstanding credit and a larger economy? It largely turning into banker//Wall Street bonuses notwithstanding.

Wow.... Ghandi's a sharp cat, but I did NOT expect him to make this argument.

 

[Greoric]

LOL well I am a big believer in the "free" market just have a very diff view on the role of govt.

Debt does have a role in economic expansion, it's another form of taking savings and deploying them through investment to further economic expansion.

But generally speaking if anything over the life individuals don't save enough for old age (retirement / health / etc.) and we rely on govt to step in with social programs. We also have things like 401ks that tax subsidies savings. Mortgage interest,deductibility fly in the face of that and essentially increase the size of loan a person can take by lowering the payment.

It also acts as an industry specific subsidy, diverting investment from other industries to housing, which means more risks of economic distortion.

Finally it encourages owning over renting which decreases labor mobility (not as sold on this third argument).

I would also just say that given the propensity for RE bubbles and the instability of the mortgage market,rather than making the debt cheaper it should be regulated (maximum amort terms, down payments, credit guidelines), which it is in some cases, tax deductibility just flies in the face of it.

I say bin it and give all tax payers (like those of us ho bought their house with s suitcase of cash ) a tax break

And just to supplement this great post, not only are there fiscal policies that disincentivize savings, but currently the larger effect of monetary policy is going against the wealth building under-consumption as well.

 

[Octavian]

But guys, Trump cares about the little guy. He and his ilk care about the middle class.

 

[Greoric]

Now you sound like @Greoric.

Doesn't the expansion of credit help the economy? More people in loans means more outstanding credit and a larger economy? It largely turning into banker//Wall Street bonuses notwithstanding.

I don't know that you want me opining on this anymore, but the answers to your question is yes. That's why fractional reserve banking and money in general are so great for modern markets.

@VivaRevolution
...However, remember the market can't actually grow past the utilization of what current capital stock will allow. In that respect, banks aren't really lending out currency as much as they're lending out the physical capital entrepreneurs use to build their businesses (the tractors, machines, cars etc.) and there's not an infinite amount of that to go around.

So when there's price signals through interest rates that incentivize greater lending rates and lending in sectors that aren't currently demanded by the market you're inevitably setting up a bubble and crash to allocate all that misplaced capital.

 

[Greoric]

But guys, Trump cares about the little guy. He and his ilk care about the middle class.

I don't know about all that, but frankly the great thing about him is that he's pissing all the right people off.

 

[Octavian]

I don't know about all that, but frankly the great thing about him is that he's pissing all the right people off.

Exactly what does that accomplish?

 

[Greoric]

Exactly what does that accomplish?

Well, we'll see the extent of that effect in the coming years I suppose.

 

[RedSoul]

Then they cannot afford the home. That is obvious.

So you're saying that unless you can save 40k, you haven't earned the ability to live in an average home?

You're a dumbass, are you even an adult yet?

 

[Letssnuggle]

So you're saying that unless you can save 40k, you haven't earned the ability to live in an average home?

You're a dumbass, are you even an adult yet?

If you truly think 40k is some unfathomable amount to save for a average house, are you a dumbass or even a adult yet?

 

[RedSoul]

If you truly think 40k is some unfathomable amount to save for a average house, are you a dumbass or even a adult yet?

So you've saved 40k then? How long would it take you to save 40k starting from nothing right now? Years, right?

The average income in the US is about 50k. Yes, I believe that the average middle income family should be able to buy a home. Do you really think anyone making 50k a year and trying to support a family can "easily save" 40k? Obviously math is hard for you.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

How Donald Trump Just Raised Many Mortgage Bills

• Haley Sweetland Edwards @haleybureau

7:12 PM ET
For first-time homeowners


In one of his very first substantive moves as president, Donald Trump signed an executive order Friday that will result in a hike to many first-time homeowners’ mortgage bills.

Trump, who claimed a populist mantle in his first speech as a president, signed the executive order reversing an Obama-era policy less than an hour after leaving the inaugural stage.

The order will have the immediate effect of increasing the amount that most non-wealthy homeowners must contribute to the Federal Housing Authority’s insurance program. Beginning Jan. 27, most borrowers will now have to pony up six-tenths of a percent of their mortgage each month, up a quarter of a percentage point from last year. Americans with $200,000 mortgages will pay roughly $500 more in 2017 than they did in 2016, according to the FHA.

http://time.com/4641511/trump-inauguration-mortgage-payments/


______________________________________________________________________________________


Like I said in a previous thread, you get 3 strikes with me and your out. Plausible deniability will not save you.

Strike 1 was appointing a bunch of Vampire Squid Goldman Sachs turncoats to his administration.

Strike 2 is this here. This helps no one but banksters Mr. Trump, and you are playing with fire here.

Go fight on trade next Mr. Trump, so you can earn a new pitch count, because you are about to be dead to me.

Discuss..............................

He will easily hit 3 strikes if you are this easy with it.


I understand strike 1 but this strike 2 for you doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also will you deduct from his strike #2 since he is killing TPP?

 

[Octavian]

He will easily hit 3 strikes if you are this easy with it.


I understand strike 1 but this strike 2 for you doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also will you deduct from his strike #2 since he is killing TPP?

When are we going to accept that TPP wasn't bad? Why are we still championing trade protectionism and hating on liberalizing trade? It's like we've warped back 80 years just to support our guy and stay in the tribe.

 

[chardog]

Then they shouldn't get the loan in the first place. That is why banks exist, to make that judgment.

Don't make excuses for the thieves.

well you've gotta pick one side and stick to it, should they get the loan or not?

what trump does would make them slightly harder to qualify, and IMO, that doesnt go far enough. People that cant afford loans, shouldnt get them.

 

[chardog]

But guys, Trump cares about the little guy. He and his ilk care about the middle class.

under bush, everyone was able to buy a house, balloon loan baby!

why dont you congratulate Bush for the highest accessibility of homebuying? Middle class baby, yeah!

 

[Octavian]

under bush, everyone was able to buy a house, balloon loan baby!

why dont you congratulate Bush for the highest accessibility of homebuying? Middle class baby, yeah!

Bush ushered in an era of deregulation and of course pushed us into Iraq which was at the time clearly evil to those of us with a brain.

He was wretched and frankly we're still digging out of his hole. And I'm not going to lay the entire financial crisis at his feet yet there is still a big hole he alone is responsible for.

 

[VivaRevolution]

He will easily hit 3 strikes if you are this easy with it.


I understand strike 1 but this strike 2 for you doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also will you deduct from his strike #2 since he is killing TPP?

Yeah TPP helped his stock with me, but his new CIA director lost that stock and then some. Out there telling bold faced lies about the NSA, Gitmo, and CIA torture programs.

 

[VivaRevolution]

well you've gotta pick one side and stick to it, should they get the loan or not?

what trump does would make them slightly harder to qualify, and IMO, that doesnt go far enough. People that cant afford loans, shouldnt get them.

No, you don't get it. The banks were fraudulently filling out loan applications for people they knew didn't qualify for the loan.

I don't know how much more clearly I can state that the GFC was the result of rampant industry wide fraud and theft on a massive scale.

 

[Octavian]

No, you don't get it. The banks were fraudulently filling out loan applications for people they knew didn't qualify for the loan.

I don't know how much more clearly I can state that the GFC was the result of rampant industry wide fraud and theft on a massive scale.

Bingo! No one ever dug into that fraud. Easy lending with low rates facilitated this but in the end there was outrageously fraudulent practice going on.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Bingo! No one ever dug into that fraud. Easy lending with low rates facilitated this but in the end there was outrageously fraudulent practice going on.

The worse part is the CDO's that took the banks skin out of the game, so they could commit fraud, without consequence, still exist.

We need more regulation in banking, not less.