Strategy and Tactics in Fight Sports

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Ilk, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    I have a lot of time to read and not much to practice. I was looking for some good reads regarding that but could not find anything. I was wondering is not there some academic researches at the topic. I once got my hand on an academic write up regarding wrestling from a very old coach and although I do not understand wrestling that research looked like a pure gold. Very detailed backed up with research and examples. It was more fitness oriented though.

    So is there anyone that can share such studies regarding tactics and strategy.

    And let's talk about tactics and some good habits to learn.

    Here are some tactics I have learned trough my small experience in sports fighting:

    - level change on combos - body head body head. Obviously it is a good tactic.

    - study opponent with jabs, even make him guess your jab. In every spar session I made it a habit to start with lots of jabs the first round. My purpose was to see how he reacts. And it was a small tactic to which I will go back if I run out of ideas and to calm the tempo down. Obviously I am not a fighter and I do not compete, so that was a good way to escape. It consisted of jab to the face. Jab to the body. Right step and jab. Double jab, jab up and down, triple jab. It gave me an idea how I can trow the right hand after ward up or down. And it gave me the opportunity to fake the jab or the right hand after wards.

    - finish combos with the lead hand. Brings you to a natural defensive position.

    - counter with the hand that you just blocked with. Catches a jab, beat him down to the time he brings that jab back to defend. That shit even works if they try to double jab or jab hook. A little dangerous if they do 1-2. Blocked a cross, spam that jab or trow a hook. Or checked a low kick trow a left hook. All the example are given from an orthodox vs orthodox perspective.

    So what are such good tactics that you know?
     
  2. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Don't waste strikes. So many times I pretend I'm going to engage and simply don't, or I stay just out of range. I believe a feel out process is very important, even in sparring.
     
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  3. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Tactics will always beat technique. You can have the most lame vertical hammer fist like in a shitty TMA tutorial, but you know how to execute and time it, you'll will your fights.

    Some tactics I like to use is to use my lead hand to touch/hold my opponent's arm. One its used as my range finder, and two, I can feel anything they do from that point on. Since I'm kinda of pushing with it, there's more effort on their end to do everything and it ends up being telegraphed. Weather its a cross, kick, overhand/hook, whatever.

    -If my opponent has a high guard, but its up there but not tight, I'll try to slip a jab or something in to make them keep it tight. Once tight, I can do (not sure what the official name is) this move where I pull their rear hand with my lead hand and strike from there. Usually I have a 2 and at the angle can rip them as well. The pull usually pulls them off balanced since they're still trying to brace and block from the previous strike.
    Basically, say we're orthodox, and based on my POV, I'd pull on arm on the right (their left) with kind of an outside grip using my left, land a 2,3 (body), kick. If their balance is crap the kick can sweep them out.

    -Retaliating ASAP, never letting my opponent get more than 3 strikes on me, I'm at the point where I pretty much counter back after 2 strikes on average.

    -If my opponent has a habit of parrying I'm pumping the jab and ending with a (not sure how to describe it) "blitz-in-cross", its a very heavy strike.

    -A basic bullshit combo: 1,2, inside leg kick x2. You set it up by doing it twice. Obviously you don't do it using the same rhythm and tempo all the time. Sell the kick so they feel its weak and they can counter with a straight

    they usually try to counter my inside kick with a cross, and on there:
    ...inside leg kick, step off to the inside + jammed cross

    When you step off on the inside, you slip their cross. your cross will be jammed, the angle you're at, you'll have to do it to hand, its gonna be an ugly hockey punch, but its a real heavy strike.

    Ring cutting
    -We've been taught to use the typical dutch walking forward tank/steamroller style. Personally I prefer it over someone that moves alot. When you take shots to your block and press forward it fucks with your opponent big time, to them they threw everything and nothing works while you shook it off and continue going forward. Guys that move and "point fight" don't have that intimidation to them, I've never felt threatened by them and can continue implementing my game.

    With all that said, if your style is similar, you use it to ring cut big time. Once you have your opponent in the corner/ropes, use these attacks depending on the direction they're trying to escape (based on your POV):
    -left: hooks
    -right: rear body kick

    Ideally it'd look something like...blah blah blah, they try to escape to your left: hook, kick, jab. The escape the other way: body kick, 3, 2. And repeat. Whatever you do, KEEP THEM THERE, make them work to escape. I know we train with our training partners and after a combo we ease up and give them a Hollywood runway to get out, don't do that. That's gonna happen in your fight. Make them work to escape, you're doing a disservice by letting them out easily when they won't get that opportunity on fight night.

    A couple of techniques to get out of the corner I like are:

    -Stiff arm while circling out
    -clinch up -> turn them + immediately knee
    Don;t wait, use kneeing as a way to open the pummel. Don't turn, pummel, then knee as three steps. The turn and knee happens almost in sync. When you turn correctly, they're basically off balanced, and the knee is gonna hurt them. Seal the double collar once that happens and do to town.

    It works great as well if your opponent is walking you down while clinching and you're near the wall/ropes, your turn almost ends up kinda like a sacrifice throw, and they fall right into the wall/ropes.
    -multiple hooks while circling out on the inside. You may eat a leg kick on the way out, but if you sell it right, they'll feel the threat and will only focus on blocking. It has to be quick, I'm not talking about throwing slow hooks, stop, then move. Its simultaneous. Throw hooks while you anchor your foot out, then pivot out to end up perpendicular or to opponent (or a better angle).

    So to pull it off it'd look something like, they get you on the ropes/wall, and want to pick you off from the outside:
    -(stiff) 1,2, 3-3-3 (as you angle out).

    Feeling:
    If on finishing your combos you feel your opponent is a tank and you're jammed, you take steps out to be out of their strike range, and you won't have jammed strikes.
    If your opponent did get hurt from your combo, walk them down and continue pressing.

    You'll learn to switch strikes as well, say you throw 1,2,3,kick and on the kick you know its gonna jam, throw the knee instead.
     
  4. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    Jeez J that was one hell of a post. Pure gold.

    Thanks to bisquit and book of speed too. I have been practicing rechambering mainly lately. Cause I can do that.at work even. Stand next to a wall and spam 1-2-1-2 or 2-1-2 combo and watch for the speed of the combo and where your hands rechamber. At some point I feel like flowing and at the right distance and even hitting the wall does not heart. If I can't flow I do a small jump and relax to get to a natural position, bring the hands up in a guard podition and repeat. Basically practicing some small combo, good guard ( I love the Andre Ward guard and stance ) and rechambering. Unfortunately that is.the.entire boxing practice I get for 3 months now and is going to last for 1 more month.

    I would like to ask about tactics regarding the cross. I am not sure why but I very often get hit when doing a cross unless it is a lead cross. That was a major problem for me and after some critique from Sano I even left my previous coach and signed boxing with a very good coach. We spend almost a month with him on that cross. He corrected the guard and the stance but that cross man still sucks. I seriously rather jab kick than jab cross. Or even jab get inside and then cross. Any ideas?
     
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  5. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Do you get hit with the cross in midst of a combo, or just when you're being still? I'm guessing this is from orthodox partners and not SP's, if it is, it takes time, I normally don't get hit, but against SPs I do get hit with the cross more often than normal people.
     
  6. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    Ye Orthodox. I meant when I trow the cross in a combo I usually get countered when I do it. I am not getting hit much to be honest but I spar mostly low skill people. The ones that hit me are mainly try hard full power people which I also try to punish. But I do get countered mainly when I trow the cross.

    Funny now you made me thinking I have easier time sparring Southpaws than Ortodox. It is easier to get angles on SP it seems and the low level SPs seems to not have good fight IQ to deal with angles. While it is much harder for me to get angles on Orthodox.
     
  7. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Maybe you're telegraphing somehow, it could even be something as simple as your hand drops slightly before you throw the 2 or your tempo is monotonous before you fire off the 2.

    Are the people you frequently sparring against taller than you? And are you really over committing with your cross and ending up learning too far forward? (coming right into their strike range).
     
  8. MaxMMA

    MaxMMA Green Belt

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    What rule set are we talking about here?
     
  9. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Thanks

    I think it depends on the style. Boxers I've noticed take angles much more than MT or other strikers do.

    I'm thinking it has to do with the importance of ring control being the major criteria in the judging. Because of that, every gym would train their guys to capitalize on it; Even if you take an angle and light the guy up, you could still potentially lose out because they ate it and continued pressing.

    Recently I've been playing around more with it, I've always used pivots, but it was secondary in my game plan.
     
  10. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Its a bit of an advanced step, its something to progress after footwork.
    Walking into a roundhouse happens. lol. A reason why I enjoyed footwork more against SP's when I started doing it. Even jabbing while moving to the outside feels very awkward, but its optimal.

    Alot of people actually don't know how to do proper footwork surprisingly. I've found some guys at my exp. level that still make errors like after retracting a kick, they retract too far and almost tight rope themselves.

    When I first started out, I didn't learn any footwork or proper shadow boxing until a year in, I did it informally via YouTube. Most of the time it was padwork, drills, etc. Then when I got paired up with a more exp'd training partner for his camp, he realized it was a huge issue and had me do nothing but footwork when I shadow boxed. It got alot better.

    To be fair I don't blame the system, its just not appealing, especially to trial folks. Once in awhile when I'm running a class I'd have the them focus on absolute basics like footwork and at best 1,2. The fanciest I've ever given the class was 1,2, step in clinch, turn + knee. The problem I'm finding with trial guys is they never come back because that's boring. So I can see it happening that gyms don't go over this to keep members attracted. We've had some members moan about the "boredom" that is 1,2,3,kick when it was the content of the classes for the week.
     
  11. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    It is, everyone likes fancy stuff like spin/jump kicks or spinning elbows you see in highlight reels, but those are a minority, maybe the 1% - 10% of the total. Its usually the basics done at such a high level it always lands.
     
  12. Superhet

    Superhet White Belt

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    One of my favorite combinations (closed stance): throw a good hard jab, move back. Fake a jab-cross with your torso, then actually throw it and move back. Make sure you are making these shots as long as possible and don't put everything into them so you give them a false sense of confidence. They will be thinking you're only firing long, straight shots, and will probably be moving forward with their gloves high and tight in front of their tucked-in face. Now you explode forward, grab/cover his rear hand with your lead and blast him with an overhand right to the ear behind his glove, then immediately take an angle to the in- or outside and hit him again with a long combination.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  13. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    Haha considering the flashy stuff. Here is a story from my previous gym. Picture a small town in Eastern Europe and its fight sport gym. Everyone looks like a future thug and trains cause his father is actually a thug or a guard. The clothing is nothing like for MMA or kickboxing. Everyone buys some cheap gloves a mouthpiece and shows up in whatever sports wear they got. Enter the.fancy looking guy with full UFC sports wear and gloves. So we spar and he is trying to knee teep and jump from there for a superman punch. The coach sees him and tells him to be.more serious and jokes about it telling me I am free to kick the hell out of him if he.does it again. So he comes with it a minute later and I blast him in the air with a front kick and the guy literally falls in his ass.

    Now on a serious note you guys mention angles. Let's talk about them. When is a good time to take an angle from a tactical point of view.

    I find it easy against a SP as it looks natural. You step to the left and you have an angle for the cross or round house and they can mostly jab or hook you. It is easy to defend and easy to attack. And as I said I mostly spar against low IQ new to the sport SPs. It is very easy to out smart them.

    However orthodox is another animal. I feel like I can only jab them. Or do some jab low.kick. I try to step right and slip to the outside a lot against them. I try 1-2 and then go right but it does not happen often. So we often just jab fight and hit our hands when we try something else. I can't outsmart them. And if they are more sgressive or stronger they often beat me.

    Regarding distance note taken
    I have a bad habit to jump back when I hit to escape distance on which I worked alone last summer shadow boxing. We have tried last boxing private sessions to work on it.
     
  14. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    lol. Dudes coming to train decked out in 18k gold chains.

    Over here the poser are the guys who gauze up and get someone to help lace them up.

    It is more natural against SP's because you move outside with your lead foot and its the anchor while you pivot around with the rear like a compass, the other way not so much. You can try to look at it like a game, where you do what you can to face your opponent's side or back. How you do it is up to you.

    One of my favorites is (both of us are orthodox):
    • You throw a 1,2
    • partner/opponent retaliates with a jab
    • You move to the outside (as they throw teh jab), and throw a cross immediately AFTER you are planted so you can get power behind it
    This one is kinda of a "dash" step. You do your best to stay just outside the jab (same principles as slipping). Footwork here would be: your lead leg pushes you right as you keep the right leg "light", almost float like in that instance. At the end you should face your opponent almost at a 45 - 60 degree angle.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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  15. Rico

    Rico Franklin Platinum Member

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    Aside from just specific tactics, I'm a firm believer in having a "meta" tactical approach, as well.

    For example, as part of the southpaw master race, I'm huge on establishing the outside angle "advantage" (in quotes because it can be a disadvantage too) against orthos by throwing jabs, double jabs, feints, 1>1>2s, slip 5>2s etc etc until they start to react accordingly of me jumping that side and then I start ripping body kicks at the end of those combos, pivoting back to keep them turning, or slipping/pulling the other way with a power cross etc.

    An ortho example is how SRL used to basically start every fight by just consistently jabbing and circling to the left (obviously by jabbing I mean the million different variations thereof such as doubling it up, body>head, feinting etc) then would base his whole offense for the rest of the fight based off your reactions to that.

    Guess what I'm saying is that there should be a "big picture" tactic as well.
     
  16. aerius

    aerius Brown Belt

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    Have you tried going left? My boxing coach taught us the importance of direction changes, it's common for fighters to keep moving the same direction and get into stalemates or losing exchanges. So we need to change things to catch the opponent off guard after getting him used to certain habits.

    After stepping right for a while, your opponent will get used to it and expect you to keep doing it. Instead, step/pivot left and you should have a clear path to hit them from the inside angle where they're not expecting it. I liked to throw the lead hook to the body then a 3-2 or 2-3 to the head.
     
  17. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    lol @ this circus freak.

    Y'all should be put in camps

    @AndyMaBobs
     
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