STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[moreorless87]

Yeah Qui-gon drives the first part while Padme is along for the ride, then they switch places when Padme decides to go back to Naboo.

Not really a good idea to kill one protagonist, while the other gets pushed into the role of love interest supporting character as you say.

Besides the bad scripting/acting I think you see the fundamental problem with those films right from the start, what do we get in the opening? not the introduction of Anakin(preferable as a teen or young adult) as a protagonist but a load of setup for the coming politics.

 

[chickenluver]

Besides the bad scripting/acting I think you see the fundamental problem with those films right from the start, what do we get in the opening? not the introduction of Anakin as a protagonist but a load of setup for the coming politics.

Exactly. The tatooine sequence feels like a weird diversion, even though it's the only important thing that happens in the movie.

 

[Magooglie]

Serious question: Do directors always have such influence on the script?
I was under the impression they were given a script and it was their job to bring that script to life. But it seems that both Abrams and Johnson did a considerable amount of writing.
Wouldn’t it make sense to have one person write an outline for all 3 films before you ever shoot the first one? It would keep tonal consistency and make sure no one is going rouge.

Star Wars is certainly not as organized as the MCU. They don't seem to have a Kevin Feige.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Apparently if you make strong female characters, you have an agenda.

If you have strong male characters, you're just making a movie.

And by god if a man fucks up and a lady doesn’t, the whole thing is about how white men are the devil. Also never forget the Jews want to take your money and give it to gay black women

 

[Supereem]

Besides the bad scripting/acting I think you see the fundamental problem with those films right from the start, what do we get in the opening? not the introduction of Anakin(preferable as a teen or young adult) as a protagonist but a load of setup for the coming politics.

You could make similar criticisms about a new hope.

 

[moreorless87]

You could make similar criticisms about a new hope.

I wouldn't say that's the same though, A New Hope uses the Hidden Fortress device of the two everyday observers but really it gets into Luke's story pretty quickly, even the stuff with 3PO and R2 on Tatoonie is helping to setup the location Luke lives in.

As mentioned Anakin himself feels like a diversion in Phantom Menace.

 

[Supereem]

I wouldn't say that's the same though, A New Hope uses the Hidden Fortress device of the two everyday observers but really it gets into Luke's story pretty quickly, even the stuff with 3PO and R2 on Tatoonie is helping to setup the location Luke lives in.

As mentioned Anakin himself feels like a diversion in Phantom Menace.

No doubt a new hope is better.

 

[Fatt Hughes]

glad it failed in china. Hopefully studios will stop chin-pandering that's been going on for past few years.

 

[moreorless87]

glad it failed in china. Hopefully studios will stop chin-pandering that's been going on for past few years.

The extra scene of Yoda endorsing anti corruption drives in Chongqing was a step too far.

 

[minute bull]

 

[Guestx]

Phantom Menace is not the first act of a play, it's a singular film. It's perfectly valid to evaluate it as such. Eps 2 and 3 had not been written when Ep 1 was released.

Anakin being developed in later movies has no bearing on whether or not he's the protagonist of the Phantom Menace.

Even Lucas himself says at the beginning of The Phantom Menace commentary that it's incorrect to view Phantom Menace outside of the context of the rest of the saga.

It's a film that tells a story unique to itself (the Trade Federation's blockade of Naboo) but it ultimately is just part one of a much larger story.

This should be obvious, and if it's not, the director himself makes it clear.

 

[Bob Gray]

Star Wars is certainly not as organized as the MCU. They don't seem to have a Kevin Feige.

Yeah, and its a bit of let down. Although it is only two movies that are so intrinsically linked. Rogue One exists outside of the current trilogy and occupies it's place in the story well enough. I think both sides of of the TLJ debate are using the same point, that time is going to tell on this movie. I think theres some truth to that, but much of it depends on the 3rd movie. Once the story is settled it'll be easier to see the place of TLJ in the narrative. Currently my position kind of centers around that theres much less to look forward to going into the 3rd movie as there was going into the second. Maybe Im wrong. Theres not much to anticipate, really.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Even Lucas himself says at the beginning of The Phantom Menace commentary that it's incorrect to view Phantom Menace outside of the context of the rest of the saga.

It's a film that tells a story unique to itself (the Trade Federation's blockade of Naboo) but it ultimately is just part one of a much larger story.

This should be obvious, and if it's not, the director himself makes it clear.

He can say that, but at the end of the day, the movie still runs two hours without really giving you someone to latch on to. The prequels have been dissected many times, but I think it's apparent he could have told these stories in a manner that had each movie stand on its own two feet while being part of a trilogy.

He got married to the idea of seeing Darth Vader as an innocent little kid to make his transition into Vader all the more sad, but didn't realize until he was in the editing room that gaining the image of innocent kid Anakin cost him many of the other things he should have been able to do with the first two hours of his trilogy.

 

[Guestx]

He can say that, but at the end of the day, the movie still runs two hours without really giving you someone to latch on to. The prequels have been dissected many times, but I think it's apparent he could have told these stories in a manner that had each movie stand on its own two feet while being part of a trilogy.

He got married to the idea of seeing Darth Vader as an innocent little kid to make his transition into Vader all the more sad, but didn't realize until he was in the editing room that gaining the image of innocent kid Anakin cost him many of the other things he should have been able to do with the first two hours of his trilogy.

I can sincerely say that I had no problem with there not being that ONE "good guy" who leads the show. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin all made up a capable team and I never questioned it or asked why there wasn't only one person who was front and center. Didn't even think about it, honestly.

 

[90 50]

Yeah, and its a bit of let down. Although it is only two movies that are so intrinsically linked. Rogue One exists outside of the current trilogy and occupies it's place in the story well enough. I think both sides of of the TLJ debate are using the same point, that time is going to tell on this movie. I think theres some truth to that, but much of it depends on the 3rd movie. Once the story is settled it'll be easier to see the place of TLJ in the narrative. Currently my position kind of centers around that theres much less to look forward to going into the 3rd movie as there was going into the second. Maybe Im wrong. Theres not much to anticipate, really.

I personally have nothing to look forward too.

Rey has already kicked kylos ass, doing it again serves no anticipation or drama

Snoke is time

Rey’s backstory is fucked.

And the force awakens spent a lot of material and time setting it up, just to b thrown out for a dick size show.

Luke’s gone

Han is dead

We already know Leia dies

There’s nothing left. I have zero anticipation for the next film

Walking out of force awakens i couldn’t wait for the next one

Star Wars is dead to me now

 

[D Train]

Apparently if you make strong female characters, you have an agenda.

If you have strong male characters, you're just making a movie.

I don’t think anyone is complaining about strong female characters. Angelina Jolie, Scarlett Johansson, Mila Jovavich, Salma Hayek all made careers out of strong female characters with films that guys love.
What’s happening here is different.

 

[chickenluver]

Even Lucas himself says at the beginning of The Phantom Menace commentary that it's incorrect to view Phantom Menace outside of the context of the rest of the saga.

It's a film that tells a story unique to itself (the Trade Federation's blockade of Naboo) but it ultimately is just part one of a much larger story.

This should be obvious, and if it's not, the director himself makes it clear.

So if I complain that Fredo in The Godfather is a useless character, I'm wrong because of how well he was used in The Godfather 2?

 

[Guestx]

So if I complain that Fredo in The Godfather is a useless character, I'm wrong because of how well he was used in The Godfather 2?

I've only seen The Godfather films once, but it's very possible.

I'm not saying that you can't judge the films individually--I think that Fellowship of the Ring is easily the best of the LOTR trilogy--but it is a literal truth that these films are telling one long story that is broken up into parts.

 

[chickenluver]

I've only seen The Godfather films once, but it's very possible.

I'm not saying that you can't judge the films individually--I think that Fellowship of the Ring is easily the best of the LOTR trilogy--but it is a literal truth that these films are telling one long story that is broken up into parts.

That's a lazy way to excuse poor aspects of individual installments. Almost as bad as when people fill in inconsistencies with info from the books, comic books, cartoons, games, etc.

It's absurd to say a criticism of Godfather 1 is invalidated by Part 2, and the same applies to Star Wars.

 

[Guestx]

That's a lazy way to excuse poor aspects of individual installments. Almost as bad as when people fill in inconsistencies with info from the books, comic books, cartoons, games, etc.

It's absurd to say a criticism of Godfather 1 is invalidated by Part 2, and the same applies to Star Wars.

I'll put it this way.

If I'm writing a trilogy of movies, and thinking about my story that way, then I don't think it's illegitimate to plant a character in the first part of the story whose relevance won't become obvious until the second part.

It sounds to me like you aren't thinking big enough.