Sonny Liston vs George Foreman

[spacetime]

Foreman definately had the stronger chin too. Most people would be hospitalized from the Lyle-Foreman fight

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Foreman definately had the stronger chin too. Most people would be hospitalized from the Lyle-Foreman fight

Does he?

As i said earlier i think the Ali fights have clouded peoples view of Liston

Make no mistake about it. Liston was just as big a force as Foreman was in the ring, relatively similar power and had better fundamentals.

Its a 50/50 fight imo

 

[Boxer]

So nobodies going to mention the fact that Ali practically toyed with Liston twice in comparison for fighting for his life against Foreman and only won because of the rope-a-dope and Foreman's stupidity from being wound up in Africa for months?

Liston also came up in a time when HW's were small, Floyd Patterson small, Floyd would be a small Cruiserweight or more accurately an overblown LHW in today's divisions.

Basically as soon as Liston fought a bigger HW in Ali, he quit one fight and got floored in the other ........... and you got this guy picked against the mighty George Foreman who destroyed Ken Norton, destroyed Frazier and who even came back as a Grandfather and won a title?

Crazy talk.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

So nobodies going to mention the fact that Ali practically toyed with Liston twice in comparison for fighting for his life against Foreman and only won because of the rope-a-dope and Foreman's stupidity from being wound up in Africa for months?

Liston also came up in a time when HW's were small, Floyd Patterson small, Floyd would be a small Cruiserweight or more accurately an overblown LHW in today's divisions.

Basically as soon as Liston fought a bigger HW in Ali, he quit one fight and got floored in the other ........... and you got this guy picked against the mighty George Foreman who destroyed Ken Norton, destroyed Frazier and who even came back as a Grandfather and won a title?

Crazy talk.

I can definitely see Foreman taking the W, anything can come from that fight, 50/50, and I really like Liston, but both Foreman and Liston took asswhoopin's from Ali.

 

[Jhonni5]

i much preferred liston's punching style to foreman's. his right was nearly as clean and probably more powerful than louis's.

Liston did admire Louis a lot and modeled his style after him.

 

[Jhonni5]

Maybe it would look like the Lyle-Foreman fight and just be a blood bath that could go either way.

Hard to see how either one dominates the other. Might be a toss-upp.

But my feeling is on young peak big George. He really only struggled against fast opponents, and Liston wasn't that type, and Liston could be broken for sure.

I don't know about 50/50. I think Liston takes it more often than not. Foreman himself said Liston was the only man to stand up to him, and back him up consistently in the ring back in their sparring days when Liston sort of took young George under his wing. Said he was the scariest man he ever met in the ring.

At the 1:10 mark:

 

[borntoloseNOT]

I don't know about 50/50. I think Liston takes it more often than not. Foreman himself said Liston was the only man to stand up to him, and back him up consistently in the ring back in their sparring days when Liston sort of took young George under his wing. Said he was the scariest man he ever met in the ring.

At the 1:10 mark:

I always wanted to see those sparring sessions after hearing those comments.

 

[PUO3]

So nobodies going to mention the fact that Ali practically toyed with Liston twice in comparison for fighting for his life against Foreman and only won because of the rope-a-dope and Foreman's stupidity from being wound up in Africa for months?

Liston also came up in a time when HW's were small, Floyd Patterson small, Floyd would be a small Cruiserweight or more accurately an overblown LHW in today's divisions.

Basically as soon as Liston fought a bigger HW in Ali, he quit one fight and got floored in the other ........... and you got this guy picked against the mighty George Foreman who destroyed Ken Norton, destroyed Frazier and who even came back as a Grandfather and won a title?

Crazy talk.

I guess styles dont matter? Or you think boxing math solves it all?

 

[Hagler]

Watch it again. Ali did lay against the ropes but he also landed a lot of clean punches. It wasn't the entirely one sided fight you usually hear about.

People tend to forget that Ali was ahead on all scorecards by the time of the Kayo. I blame part of it on When we were kings, which was a great documentary but emphasized quite a lot Ali's so called comeback. For a better account of the Rumble in the Jungle people should either watch it or read The fight, by Mailer. The 40 pages or so in which he describes the scrap itself are a thing of beauty.

 

[Hagler]

As it was said before this one would be a lot about Liston's stamina and defense vs Foreman's footwork and aggression. Either Foreman ends it by the middle rounds or he's ripe for the late KO. Very close call. Gun to my head I'd say Foreman, but I wouldn't bet on this one.

 

[TownBiz]

Boxed? Ali laid on the Ropes for 8 rounds and prayed to God is what happened.

Boxed lol.

that's not what happened...you need to watch the fight and stop repeating stuff that's not true. the fight wasn't close. ali was winning round after round by outboxing foreman...the celebrated rope-a-dope tactic wasn't ALL ali did in the fight...most of the time he was outboxing foreman.

 

[TownBiz]

i see a repeat of foreman-lyle, except lyle (liston in this case) outlasts foreman.

 

[TownBiz]

Does he?

As i said earlier i think the Ali fights have clouded peoples view of Liston

Make no mistake about it. Liston was just as big a force as Foreman was in the ring, relatively similar power and had better fundamentals.

Its a 50/50 fight imo

well, in the first ali fight, liston quit because he was getting beat up real bad and had a bad arm...he never really looked hurt to me...in the second fight, the phantom punch caught foreman early and cold...sometimes it's not the power of a punch that ko's a guy. that said, i think liston had a hell of a chin. dude was as strong as an ox.

young george was dropped numerous times...ali, lyle, young...but that's not to say he had a weak chin. i think foreman's chin was stronger than most. i think what makes the difference in this fight is really technique...they're both power hitters...maybe foreman has more power, but liston was more rugged than frazier or norton...on the other hand, not sure young george could handle liston's power as well...could go either way.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

So nobodies going to mention the fact that Ali practically toyed with Liston twice in comparison for fighting for his life against Foreman and only won because of the rope-a-dope and Foreman's stupidity from being wound up in Africa for months?

Liston also came up in a time when HW's were small, Floyd Patterson small, Floyd would be a small Cruiserweight or more accurately an overblown LHW in today's divisions.

Basically as soon as Liston fought a bigger HW in Ali, he quit one fight and got floored in the other ........... and you got this guy picked against the mighty George Foreman who destroyed Ken Norton, destroyed Frazier and who even came back as a Grandfather and won a title?

Crazy talk.

When Ali fought Liston he was at the beginning of his prime, at the end of it when he fought Foreman, and vice versa for his opponents. It doesn't really make for a fair comparison.

 

[Boxer]

I guess styles dont matter? Or you think boxing math solves it all?

Yes styles matter but in Ali's case one was a landslide and Foremans beaten all sorts of styles, Norton, Frazier etc

Fact is Liston's reign came to an abrupt end as soon as the HW division started seeing bigger competitors, the era which Liston actually started by being the prototype.

Foreman was bigger than Liston and competed all the way through to the modern era, the man took on prime Holyfield while he was a Grandfather.

Liston would put up a fight but in the end I see Foreman walking him down and catching him.

In their sparring matches if young George was giving Liston all he could handle, what do you think prime mature George would do?

 

[PUO3]

Yes styles matter but in Ali's case one was a landslide and Foremans beaten all sorts of styles, Norton, Frazier etc

Fact is Liston's reign came to an abrupt end as soon as the HW division started seeing bigger competitors, the era which Liston actually started by being the prototype.

Foreman was bigger than Liston and competed all the way through to the modern era, the man took on prime Holyfield while he was a Grandfather.

Liston would put up a fight but in the end I see Foreman walking him down and catching him.

In their sparring matches if young George was giving Liston all he could handle, what do you think prime mature George would do?

What about Ali is similar to Foreman....

 

[spacetime]

So nobodies going to mention the fact that Ali practically toyed with Liston twice in comparison for fighting for his life against Foreman and only won because of the rope-a-dope and Foreman's stupidity from being wound up in Africa for months?

Liston also came up in a time when HW's were small, Floyd Patterson small, Floyd would be a small Cruiserweight or more accurately an overblown LHW in today's divisions.

Basically as soon as Liston fought a bigger HW in Ali, he quit one fight and got floored in the other ........... and you got this guy picked against the mighty George Foreman who destroyed Ken Norton, destroyed Frazier and who even came back as a Grandfather and won a title?

Crazy talk.

The judges scorecards were even when Liston retired in fight 1. Mr ignoramus.

 

[Jhonni5]

In their sparring matches if young George was giving Liston all he could handle, what do you think prime mature George would do?

It was the other way around with the sparring matches according to Foreman. Check the Liston video I posted earlier in this thread at the 1:10 mark.

 

[Boxer]

The judges scorecards were even when Liston retired in fight 1. Mr ignoramus.

............ he quit on his stool ffs.

I don't give a damn what the score cards said.

 

[Boxer]

It was the other way around with the sparring matches according to Foreman. Check the Liston video I posted earlier in this thread at the 1:10 mark.

Foreman was being respectful as he always is, he said Frazier was scary as hell he didn't even want to fight him .......... and you saw what he did to Frazier.

I'm not saying George is lying, I'm saying he's talking about a young up coming Foreman being able to hang with Liston but not giving away what prime Foreman could of done.

Remember weight wise Liston was basically a big Cruiser Weight, he fought on average at 210 lbs, the CW limit is 200 lbs, with modern water cutting this guy is no bigger than a CW.

Foreman all day, maybe with difficulty but Foreman takes this.