Someone Explain This So Called Housing Crisis?

[avenue94]

Well immigrants move here and need a home sooo

And they also increase supply of labor to build homes. Not to mention supply problems predate them arriving.

When you are only making 7100 new units a year in a zero vacancy province and bringing in 27000 newcomers a year, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know supply and demand is going to get more out of whack. A lot of them are willing to pool together and live 8 people to a 2 bedroom.

Why are only 7100 new units being built?

 

[Halifax]

And they also increase supply of labor to build homes. Not to mention supply problems predate them arriving.

Why are only 7100 new units being built?

The supply of labor is a strange animal. We have thousands of laid off red seal union trades workers whom contractors don't want to use for the whole jobs because union labor is more expensive than apprentice and foreign labor, which is what we are trying to flood the market with.

That's another conversation in itself

 

[method115]

It all depends on where you live. In Texas they are still building out like crazy so house prices aren't that bad. I have a fixed rate so it wont go up no matter what. This girl I know had a variable rate like 10 years ago when I talked to her. Sometimes I wonder what she's paying now. If she was smart she refinanced it but she was never very bright about that kind of stuff.

 

[RoastBeast]

The housing crisis is what happens when you vote people in office who don't give a shit about you.

 

[Renard]

Country of 30M accepting 1M immigrants a year. Officially it's listed at something like 500K, but there are an extra 500K non-permanent residents adding up as well, who will also be getting citizen status eventually. That would be like if the US took in 10M new legal immigrants a year. Obviously there aren't 1M new apartments being built a year. The Century Initiative aims to have 100M people in Canada, stacked like ants in "smart" (meaning: highly surveilled, tightly controlled) megacities by the turn of the century. The numbers make sense if that's what they're aiming for. A nice open-air frozen penal colony for all these lovely immigrants who think they've won the jackpot. The smart money is on leaving, not moving in.

The whole thing is also part of the cost of life squeeze to make everyone poor and dependent on government. Make everyone focused on immediate survival, unable to plan or prepare for anything. Dependence means control to make them do whatever you want, should some sort of "emergency" happen.

 

[Andy Capp]

According to my friends that still live in Canada, it's all immigrants' fault.

It's not. Well, certainly not all, but it's true that heavy reliance on foreign students at universities to make money is a huge issue. Steps to address that are finally being taken, thank heavens.

In terms of people who come intending to stay, we need them as much as they need us in a certain sense but it's true they contribute the pressure on the lack of supply.

But that's the real issue. There's just not enough houses. Period. Immigrants to Canada with no decent place to live aren't the ones crying NIMBY when talks of changing zoning start flying around. Ever see a zoning map of Greater Toronto? It's almost all single family dwellings.

They also aren't responsible for shortfalls in staffing in the construction industry and supply of construction materials.

I have literally no idea how mortgages or rates or house payments work. Housing in Canada is crazy pricey right now. I thought everything would be at a fixed rate and can only be increased annually to a certain percent? Is it like this all over?

My cousin has a bad gambling problem and she spent all of her money on that, and giving money to help out her kids and grandkids. Then She ended up having to live in a trailer after money ran out. Even places like Hamilton, Ontario which imo IS pretty shitty is crazy pricey it seems. What gives?

The first thing you need to understand is that when people take out a mortgage, which is really just a humungous loan, it may take you 25 or 30 years to pay it off if you want your monthly payments to remain within reason. At the same time, banks usually make you renegotiate the interest rate on your loan every so many years (3, 5, or 7 usually) because, as you can tell from recent events, interest rates can vary a lot over time.

I think after that it's pretty simple, even if the solution is complicated. The demand for housing is really high while the supply of housing is really low. On top of that interest rates are high so the monthly payment on the same sized loan is much bigger than when rates where low, so even if prices for houses stayed the same it would still be more expensive for the consumer.

My spouse and I got lucky because even though we paid through the nose for our house relative to what it was worth only a couple of years before, we put a lot into a down payment and got locked into a low interest rate before they started to go up in the last several years. Our monthly mortgage payment is very affordable. But if we had to renegotiate our mortgage now--if, say, we had a 5 year term that ran out, our monthly payment would increase by a massive amount even though we have less to pay on the loan now than when we bought the house.

HTH

 

[Sinister]

The supply of labor is a strange animal. We have thousands of laid off red seal union trades workers whom contractors don't want to use for the whole jobs because union labor is more expensive than apprentice and foreign labor, which is what we are trying to flood the market with.

That's another conversation in itself

There could be MORE than enough supply of housing for immigrants and citizens if it weren't for retardedly strict zoning laws (euclidean), and if it weren't for NIMBY folks voting in those who push that legislation, as well as restrictions for mixed housing in order to favor single-family units done by big developers. My neighborhood has apartments, duplexes, and single-family units all within a few blocks of each other and I'm glad for it. The homelessness isn't quite as bad here as in the City center, which has been gentrified and pushed long-time residents into being un-housed. I even knew a few small business owners downtown who lost their rental property because suddenly landlords wanted $2k+ more per month for the same space. The gym I was at for more than a decade had this happen and is now closed.

This City has some large commercial projects happening and I'm in a few social media groups of residents, lots of division as the people who live there who are better off are applauding these efforts because their property value is going to go up, almost zero concern for the people who will be priced out of owning homes. Well, for now. We know there will be huge concern if these newly homeless stay in those neighborhoods and start committing crimes.

 

[fedoriswar37]

It's still possible, albeit hard. The closer you get to big cities like Toronto the harder it gets though.

You have these communities that are 98% Indian. Subdivisions all indian, 4 families, 10+ peoppe in 1 house so you can't even compete with trying to out purchase them.

 

[fedoriswar37]

The supply of labor is a strange animal. We have thousands of laid off red seal union trades workers whom contractors don't want to use for the whole jobs because union labor is more expensive than apprentice and foreign labor, which is what we are trying to flood the market with.

That's another conversation in itself

A large part of Union guys are fucking useless to be honest. And I'm in 1 myself. They get paid fantastic and do the bare minimum with no repercussions. No pride in their community, no loyalty to their teammates . It's all about the $ and doing the least amount possible for the most amount possible.

 

[Lucas1980]

Or just move to the Deep South

What in the holy Mountain Dew is that? Actually it looks like a pretty sweet setup... Redneck Hamptons

 

[NickNick]

Well immigrants move here and need a home sooo

How many immigrants are coming in and bidding against locals for $200k+ homes?

 

[Sinister]

It's still possible, albeit hard. The closer you get to big cities like Toronto the harder it gets though.

You have these communities that are 98% Indian. Subdivisions all indian, 4 families, 10+ peoppe in 1 house so you can't even compete with trying to out purchase them.

There is a lot of data about how the idea of the "nuclear family" was an economic nightmare over all. Multi-generational households are absolutely going to have numerous distinct advantages. Child care savings, shared cost of mortgage and utilities, etc.

 

[fedoriswar37]

It's not. Well, certainly not all, but it's true that heavy reliance on foreign students at universities to make money is a huge issue. Steps to address that are finally being taken, thank heavens.

In terms of people who come intending to stay, we need them as much as they need us in a certain sense but it's true they contribute the pressure on the lack of supply.

But that's the real issue. There's just not enough houses. Period. Immigrants to Canada with no decent place to live aren't the ones crying NIMBY when talks of changing zoning start flying around. Ever see a zoning map of Greater Toronto? It's almost all single family dwellings.

They also aren't responsible for shortfalls in staffing in the construction industry and supply of construction materials.


The first thing you need to understand is that when people take out a mortgage, which is really just a humungous loan, it may take you 25 or 30 years to pay it off if you want your monthly payments to remain within reason. At the same time, banks usually make you renegotiate the interest rate on your loan every so many years (3, 5, or 7 usually) because, as you can tell from recent events, interest rates can vary a lot over time.

I think after that it's pretty simple. The demand for housing is really high while the supply of housing is really low. On top of that interest rates are high so the monthly payment on the same sized loan is much bigger than when rates where low, so even if prices for houses stayed the same it would still be more expensive for the consumer.

My spouse and I got lucky because even though we paid through the nose for our house relative to what it was worth only a couple of years before, we put a lot into a down payment and got locked into a low interest rate before they started to go up in the last several years. Our monthly mortgage payment is very affordable. But if we had to renegotiate our mortgage now--if, say, we had a 5 year term that ran out, our monthly payment would increase by a massive amount even though we have less to pay on the loan now than when we bought the house.

HTH

Some people are soooo bad at playing the long game. We overpaid slightly for our home as well , at the time. Went nowhere near our max, kept it affordable with wiggle room years down the road. Now we don't have to worry about losing our home or obsessing over interest rates because we planned properly.

Alot of the e same people crying about the unnafordability ( not all) did not make it easier on themselves .

 

[fedoriswar37]

There is a lot of data about how the idea of the "nuclear family" was an economic nightmare over all. Multi-generational households are absolutely going to have numerous distinct advantages. Child care savings, shared cost of mortgage and utilities, etc.

Hey , my family came from Italy in the 50s and 60s. This isn't a new thing. They absoloutly had multi family homes , simply for the fact that they needed sponsors to support them to even come here.

It's a different ball game now though. They were relativly poor , they would make due with whatever home their sponsor had and weren't driving up prices.

 

[Andy Capp]

Some people are soooo bad at playing the long game. We overpaid slightly for our home as well , at the time. Went nowhere near our max, kept it affordable with wiggle room years down the road. Now we don't have to worry about losing our home or obsessing over interest rates because we planned properly.

Alot of the e same people crying about the unnafordability ( not all) did not make it easier on themselves .

Can't blame people for accepting bad advice, though. A mortgage broker was on the radio crying about her own variable rate mortgage. She said that was the industry's common wisdom--fucking stupid if you ask me but when mortgage brokers are doing that to themselves you can hardly blame Joe Six Pack who did the same.

 

[Sinister]

Can't blame people for accepting bad advice, though. a mortgage broker was on the radio crying about her own variable rate mortgage. She said that was the industry's common wisdom--fucking stupid if you ask me but when mortgage brokers are doing that to themselves you can hardly blame Joe Six Pack who did the same.

Dude realtors are hella predatory here. I was recently on the local news in an article about how bad home affordability is getting. And they wanted me to speak sympathetically towards realtors over the recent NAR Commission lawsuit but I didnt really give them the soundbite they wanted so they didn't use that part, but I got a few DM's from realtors who saw the report claiming they could get us into a home. Like f*ckin ambulance chasers.

 

[Scheme]

Immigration is simply the only reason. Insane immigration numbers along with immigrants only wanting to live in a select few big cities is what causes the vast majority of housing shortages. Supply is always increasing and has been increasing for hundreds of years. The sole reason for shortages is the demand side which is solely driven by high immigration numbers.

And I constantly hear "just build more bro" which is a simple statement that ignores reality. There are other things that are needed besides simple land capacity (which big cities are already short on). Things like building material availability, sewage processing capacity, electrical capacity, medical capacity (hospitals, doctor offices, doctors, nurses, etc.), transportation, availability of food/water, etc. Even less necessary things like parks, community centers, museums, outdoor areas, etc. All of these things also take massive amounts of land, resources and human capital that a city already at capacity for one or more of these factors may simply not have available to it. Building these also competes on land and resources, driving prices up on housing even further.

The answer is simple: cut demand. Reduce immigration levels until housing prices become affordable again. If you want a lot of immigration then the only viable answers are to build new cities with these numerous factors taken into mind or to send immigrants to cities that have capacity for them which tend to not be the ones immigrants want to go to.

 

[spamking]

Or just move to the Deep South

Are those Alabama condos?

 

[Sinister]

Immigration is simply the only reason. Insane immigration numbers along with immigrants only wanting to live in a select few big cities is what causes the vast majority of housing shortages. Supply is always increasing and has been increasing for hundreds of years. The sole reason for shortages is the demand side which is solely driven by high immigration numbers.

And I constantly hear "just build more bro" which is a simple statement that ignores reality. There are other things that are needed besides simple land capacity (which big cities are already short on). Things like building material availability, sewage processing capacity, electrical capacity, medical capacity (hospitals, doctor offices, doctors, nurses, etc.), transportation, availability of food/water, etc. Even less necessary things like parks, community centers, museums, outdoor areas, etc. All of these things also take massive amounts of land, resources and human capital that a city already at capacity for one or more of these factors may simply not have available to it. Building these also competes on land and resources, driving prices up on housing even further.

The answer is simple: cut demand. Reduce immigration levels until housing prices become affordable again. If you want a lot of immigration then the only viable answers are to build new cities with these numerous factors taken into mind or to send immigrants to cities that have capacity for them which tend to not be the ones immigrants want to go to.

Yeeeaaahhhh, we should absolutely NOT develop a Country into places with more of all those awesome things listed in the 2nd paragraph. Nor should we revitalize all of the disinvested infrastructure that already exists. We should just focus on kicking people the f*ck out and building walls.

Sounds amazing.

 

[Andy Capp]

Immigration is simply the only reason.

Oh fuck off, it is not.

Also, LMAO @ your logic, they're all cramming into certain cities according to you--then why is housing so expensive all over the country?