So what's Charles legacy in LW division history ?

Dirty Frank said:
Aldo was on an 18-fight win streak and had already defended the belt 7 times prior to losing to McGregor. It's obviously ludicrous to declare Mcgregor as having the better legacy off of that flukey win. McGregor also never defended belt. That's intellectually disingenuous on your end.

Islam's win over Oliveira was anything but a fluke. It was methodical, thorough and outright dominant. And parroting naysayers aside, Islam actually went on to defend the belt TWICE against an actual champ, on a double-digit win streak to boot.

Saying he isn't even Top 10 is sheer hilarity.
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You're right .... I just think Henderson, BJ, Charles, Edgar, Pettis, Gomi, Alvarez, Melendez, RDA, Porier, JG and Tony Ferguson have much better resumes and way more ranked wins.... so I'd have Islam at like 12th best light weight by resume? Beating Volk does nothing for him in the all time LW rankings literally nothing Volk wasn't ranked at all at LW and has zero wins at lw ever in the UFC....

I think Islam can be top 5 even top 1 but he needs like 6 ranked wins minimum
 
Prologue said:
The People's LW GOAT.

Not necessarily the best per se, but a kill or be killed fighter that defied the odds to come back and become champ, leaving a wake of broken fighters in the process. He is what we joke about Erik Silva being.

One of the most exciting fighters in MMA history. And one of the few current fighters that's must see TV.
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His fight against Armen was boring as hell though.
 
JKS said:
You're counting Arman as a high level win for Islam? He beat him as an entry level UFC fighter. When that fight happened, neither guy was even ranked top 30 at LW. You can't take the name Arman has now and go back in time and equate the same value to it. That's like giving big credit to Jose Cacares for subbing Usman. Green was passed and not really a win worth boasting about, but I think Moises and Dober are better wins for sure, those guys should be mentioned. Hooker is good, Charles and Volk are great. But even Volk at LW is still questionable because he's not a LW with any history. He can be the greatest FW of all time but fail at LW.

Charles has done more at LW than Islam. I don't see how you can make any argument to place him over Charles in the all time rankings for now. Charles has more wins, more ranked wins and more higher level names. I don't think Islam is too far off, he's in a great position now cause with every win he gains more and more recogintion and moves up. Another 3 wins and you can make the argument he's the best LW of all time. He just needs a few marque wins at LW and I think he'll do it.
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Conor McGregor had one win in the UFC at lightweight when khabib beat him, so im guessing thst doesn’t mean much for khabib to beat him?

Also, Charles has more losses at lightweight, 5 to 1 for islam. His wins are Kevin Lee, Tony, chandler, poirier, gaethje, beneil. Islams wins are Arman, hooker, Charles, volk and volk again.
He has better wins than Charles does
 
Not sure where he ranks but he had one of the most entertaining, violent and surprising title runs in MMA history, all the while being loveable as fuck. That makes him special beyond his number of title defenses imo.
 
the 'never give up' attitude. everyone wrote him off and then he got the belt.

on the flip side though he was kind of just a place holder between khabib and islam.
 
He's def a lw legend up thier with dp gaethje Sean sherk pulver khabib and Tony
 
But Tony had it the worst had an streak in the top for a long time fucked up his title shot..
Got old.. still stayed in the top 5 but couldn't keep up and time left him never got a title shot
 
Sean_wongster_wongmastter said:
His fight against Armen was boring as hell though.
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Maybe not as exciting as others, but not really boring. A part of that though is that there were sone stakes in that fight.

Charles vs Max 2 at LW would be madness.
 
RonDante said:
Guessing you didn’t watch the fight?
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Oh I watched the fight alright. I just don’t live in fantasy world where I can make up my own results. Gamrot won, he did more get over it, Arman lost.
 
RonDante said:
Conor McGregor had one win in the UFC at lightweight when khabib beat him, so im guessing thst doesn’t mean much for khabib to beat him?

Also, Charles has more losses at lightweight, 5 to 1 for islam. His wins are Kevin Lee, Tony, chandler, poirier, gaethje, beneil. Islams wins are Arman, hooker, Charles, volk and volk again.
He has better wins than Charles does
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Well, you know what the difference is? Conor was an actual champion and beat Eddie who was a champ. So at the least Conor proved something at LW. But like I said, to be proven, you need to show more. And Conor lost his next 3 at LW. Volk has shown nothing at LW. While I regard as a very good win for Islam, it’s still questionable in terms of how good because Volk has no history at LW. And going back to Conor, he won once, but dropped next 3 at LW. Thats thing about fighters who are elite in one division with proven history that move up, unless they continue to have success, the wins really don’t equate as high.

Charles has more losses, but also nearly double the fights and has fought harder competition.

Charles has the better wins my friend. You’re playing funny games mentioning Arman as a good win, lol. Arman want even top 50 at LW at the time. Volk as mentioned is not even proven at LW. Charles wins are better. It’s not really debatable. His wins are mostly top 5 guys.
 
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JKS said:
Oh I watched the fight alright. I just don’t live in fantasy world where I can make up my own results. Gamrot won, he did more get over it, Arman lost.
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He didn’t do more so sorry you actually are living in a fantasy world buddy
 
JKS said:
Well, you know what the difference is? Conor was an actual champion and beat Eddie who was a champ. So at the least Conor proved something at LW. But like I said, to be proven, you need to show more. And Conor lost his next 3 at LW. Volk has shown nothing at LW. While I regard as a very good win for Islam, it’s still questionable in terms of how good because Volk has no history at LW. And going back to Conor, he won once, but dropped next 3 at LW. Thats thing about fighters who are elite in one division with proven history that move up, unless they continue to have success, the wins really don’t equate as high.

Charles has more losses, but also nearly double the fights and has fought harder competition.

Charles has the better wins my friend. You’re playing funny games mentioning Arman as a good win, lol. Arman want even top 50 at LW at the time. Volk as mentioned is not even proven at LW. Charles wins are better. It’s not really debatable. His wins are mostly top 5 guys.
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Kevin Lees best win is Chiesa or gillespie
Chandlers best win is hooker
Ferguson was coming off a loss and hasn’t won since

Arman is a good win, yes he got better but he remained undefeated in the ufc outside of the Islam fight


Charles lightweight record is 15-6-1
Islams lightweight record is 14-1

head to head, islam beat Charles, beating charles is a better win than any of the fighters Charles himself has beaten, so it carries more weight

Volk had an extremely competitive close fight with the champion islam makhachev. If you think he’s unproven when he goes up 6 pounds in weight then you’re lying to yourself
 
RonDante said:
He didn’t do more so sorry you actually are living in a fantasy world buddy
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He actually did do more in the later rounds in the positions and pressure. That's the issue with you guys, you see it as a robbery cause you don't get your way. I see it as a razor close fight that Gamrot won. Look at the last 3 rounds. Gamrot had multiple TDs landed in every round 3-5 and more control time. Arman didn't land any TD's those three rounds. Gamrot was pressuring as well. He won the grappling the last three rounds and that is why he do the UD.

Give me one reasonable argument as to why Arman won??
 
RonDante said:
Kevin Lees best win is Chiesa or gillespie
Chandlers best win is hooker
Ferguson was coming off a loss and hasn’t won since

Arman is a good win, yes he got better but he remained undefeated in the ufc outside of the Islam fight


Charles lightweight record is 15-6-1
Islams lightweight record is 14-1

head to head, islam beat Charles, beating charles is a better win than any of the fighters Charles himself has beaten, so it carries more weight

Volk had an extremely competitive close fight with the champion islam makhachev. If you think he’s unproven when he goes up 6 pounds in weight then you’re lying to yourself
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Ferguson was 12-1 in his last 13 fights and among the best LWs of the decade. Saying he lost his last fight is just trying to spin things and hide the much better part of his run, come on my friend, you know that. Ferguson is a great win. Chandler was a former Bellator champ and actually had great wins two over Benson, which I would say is his best win. Lee is a good win, nothing great. But Gaethje, Poirier and Beniel, are elite and great wins. You failed to mention those guys lol.

Charles is 15-5-1, he only has 5 losses at LW. You're comaring 15 fights to 22. Charles took far more risks ealry in his career fighting ranked guys like Cerrone and Miller within 3 fights. So he's gonna have more losses, more fights and tougher compeition.

You wanna compare a resume of

Poirier #1
Gaethje #3
Dariush #5
Ferguson #3
Chandler #4
Lee #8

To

Charles #1
Volk 2x NR and second time on short notice
Green NR
Hooker #6
Dober NR

Come my friend, you can't really compare that on paper. You got there 6 best wins matched up righ there. Charles has all top 10 wins, 5 of which are top 5. Islam fought Charles and then Hooker #8, the rest weren't even ranked. Volk is a great win as a p4p win, but it's all based of his run at FW. He moved up 10 lbs in weight. But it's all about what a fighter has proven in a division and Volk didn't do anything prior to that. We're just calling it a great win based off his run the divivion below. I don't mean to diminish Volk, he's an all time great and it's a high level win no doubt, but it's not anything to put his resume over Chalres. Like it's the level of Poirier or Gaethje.

I would give Islam a few more fights and then he will surpass Charles. I think he just needs a few more top 5 wins and title wins. If he beats Poirier and Arman, then I will put him over Charles. It's only two fights, but makes a big difference.
 
JKS said:
He actually did do more in the later rounds in the positions and pressure. That's the issue with you guys, you see it as a robbery cause you don't get your way. I see it as a razor close fight that Gamrot won. Look at the last 3 rounds. Gamrot had multiple TDs landed in every round 3-5 and more control time. Arman didn't land any TD's those three rounds. Gamrot was pressuring as well. He won the grappling the last three rounds and that is why he do the UD.

Give me one reasonable argument as to why Arman won??
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For some reason, this board hates gamrot.

They never give him a fair shake. He beat Armen. And he would do the same to Charles but they want to protect Charles from that match up because gamrot bad, arman good
 
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JKS said:
Ferguson was 12-1 in his last 13 fights and among the best LWs of the decade. Saying he lost his last fight is just trying to spin things and hide the much better part of his run, come on my friend, you know that. Ferguson is a great win. Chandler was a former Bellator champ and actually had great wins two over Benson, which I would say is his best win. Lee is a good win, nothing great. But Gaethje, Poirier and Beniel, are elite and great wins. You failed to mention those guys lol.

Charles is 15-5-1, he only has 5 losses at LW. You're comaring 15 fights to 22. Charles took far more risks ealry in his career fighting ranked guys like Cerrone and Miller within 3 fights. So he's gonna have more losses, more fights and tougher compeition.

You wanna compare a resume of

Poirier #1
Gaethje #3
Dariush #5
Ferguson #3
Chandler #4
Lee #8

To

Charles #1
Volk 2x NR and second time on short notice
Green NR
Hooker #6
Dober NR

Come my friend, you can't really compare that on paper. You got there 6 best wins matched up righ there. Charles has all top 10 wins, 5 of which are top 5. Islam fought Charles and then Hooker #8, the rest weren't even ranked. Volk is a great win as a p4p win, but it's all based of his run at FW. He moved up 10 lbs in weight. But it's all about what a fighter has proven in a division and Volk didn't do anything prior to that. We're just calling it a great win based off his run the divivion below. I don't mean to diminish Volk, he's an all time great and it's a high level win no doubt, but it's not anything to put his resume over Chalres. Like it's the level of Poirier or Gaethje.

I would give Islam a few more fights and then he will surpass Charles. I think he just needs a few more top 5 wins and title wins. If he beats Poirier and Arman, then I will put him over Charles. It's only two fights, but makes a big difference.
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Thank you. @Dirty Frank should read this
 
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RockyLockridge said:
For some reason, this board hates gamrot.

They never give him a fair shake. He beat Armen. And he would do the same to Charles but they want to protect Charles from that match up because gamrot bad, arman good
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I like Gamrot a lot! I really want to see the Charles fight as well.

If it goes down, I think Charles will get the submission.
 
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