So what's Charles legacy in LW division history ?

[Hazuki Ryo]

Actually says a lot that he beat (FINISHED) the very guy you're ranking him under.

What a weird logic. Styles make fights and you know that. It's not because you beat Charles that you beat everyone

 

[Dirty Frank]

Charles Oliveira has 4 top 5 wins... Islam 1... if you want to use your argument Conor Mcrgegor was the goat when he beat aldo... ALDO HAD FINISHED EVERY OTHER GUY...

Aldo was on an 18-fight win streak and had already defended the belt 7 times prior to losing to McGregor. It's obviously ludicrous to declare Mcgregor as having the better legacy off of that flukey win. McGregor also never defended belt. That's intellectually disingenuous on your end.

Islam's win over Oliveira was anything but a fluke. It was methodical, thorough and outright dominant. And parroting naysayers aside, Islam actually went on to defend the belt TWICE against an actual champ, on a double-digit win streak to boot.

Saying he isn't even Top 10 is sheer hilarity.

 

[Dirty Frank]

What a weird logic. Styles make fights and you know that. It's not because you beat Charles that you beat everyone

What's weird is discounting the win over said "only top 5 guy" (who was a defending champ and on a 11 or 12 fight win streak) because, durrrr durrr, "styles make fights".

He beat the guy being ballyhooed in this thread as a great fighter, and is actually still defending the very belt he used to be deemed undeserving of.

A ton of you here are massively in denial, I say.

 

[RonDante]

No. The only top 5 LW he beat is Charles. That says a lot. And as someone said earlier he has two top 10 wins only.

Arman is now the number one contender and didn’t lose a fight since he lost to Islam. Volk is one of the best fighters ever and islam beat him twice

 

[RonDante]

What's weird is discounting the win over said "only top 5 guy" (who was a defending champ and on a 11 or 12 fight win streak) because, durrrr durrr, "styles make fights".

He beat the guy being ballyhooed in this thread as a great fighter, and is actually still defending the very belt he used to be deemed undeserving of.

A ton of you here are massively in denial, I say.

No point arguing with guys like this, they’re so scared to put a modern champion anywhere close to the all time rankings of a division so they’ll just say shit like “styles make fights” as if oliveiera didn’t have a good style for gaethje and poirier

 

[JKS]

Lamas and Arman. I already addressed your point on the first page https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...n-lw-division-history.4329273/#post-173296719.

Arman, yes, I didn't type it but had it in mind. Lamas wasn't a recorded LW fight, it was a catch weight but scheduled at FW. Charles missed weight and came in at 155. But that fight affected the FW rankings, had no impact at LW.

Considering Charles record and title wins at LW, I can't see how he can't be placed top 3 all time.

 

[JKS]

Arman is now the number one contender and didn’t lose a fight since he lost to Islam. Volk is one of the best fighters ever and islam beat him twice

Arman lost to Gamrot brother.

 

[JKS]

Wins over Arman, green, hooker, Charles and volk twice with only one loss isn’t enough to put him ahead of Charles?

You're counting Arman as a high level win for Islam? He beat him as an entry level UFC fighter. When that fight happened, neither guy was even ranked top 30 at LW. You can't take the name Arman has now and go back in time and equate the same value to it. That's like giving big credit to Jose Cacares for subbing Usman. Green was passed and not really a win worth boasting about, but I think Moises and Dober are better wins for sure, those guys should be mentioned. Hooker is good, Charles and Volk are great. But even Volk at LW is still questionable because he's not a LW with any history. He can be the greatest FW of all time but fail at LW.

Charles has done more at LW than Islam. I don't see how you can make any argument to place him over Charles in the all time rankings for now. Charles has more wins, more ranked wins and more higher level names. I don't think Islam is too far off, he's in a great position now cause with every win he gains more and more recogintion and moves up. Another 3 wins and you can make the argument he's the best LW of all time. He just needs a few marque wins at LW and I think he'll do it.

 

[filthybliss]

He's above everyone except khabib and bj penn for sure in terms of wins. i think islam also beats him at his best but Islam doesn't have that many wins against top tier competition beyond charles himself, volk x2 and a rookie Armaan.

 

[filthybliss]

Sherbros had him ranked #1 for many months. This is disheartening.

sherbros have the memory of a goldfish. you are only as good as your most recent performance.

 

[filthybliss]

I personally have Charles top 3 all time at LW. If you consider his resume at LW alone, it's extremely impressive.

same, on paper, I think only Khabib and Penn pass him. Benson and Edgar were never looked as unbeatable as Charles did at the top, they both relied routinely on decisions, Benson more so.

 

[JKS]

same, on paper, I think only Khabib and Penn pass him. Benson and Edgar were never looked as unbeatable as Charles did at the top, they both relied routinely on decisions, Benson more so.

I have Benson quite high actually, top 3. Penn I don't have in my top 5.

Khabib
Olivera
Benson

 

[Kb7]

he has only beaten 1 ranked LW like ever lmao he isn't even in the top 10... skillwise he might be top 2... but your actual resume matters lol

2. Ranked LWs

 

[filthybliss]

I have Benson quite high actually, top 3. Penn I don't have in my top 5.

Khabib
Olivera
Benson

Benson relied on too many razor thin decisions, never pulled off those bizarre feats that BJ did for me to place him above.

 

[filthybliss]

he has only beaten 1 ranked LW like ever lmao he isn't even in the top 10... skillwise he might be top 2... but your actual resume matters lol

he tore apart Charles...on paper, sure, he doesn't have that stacked list. but in terms of talents and potential, he claps every 155lber except khabib and maybe BJ.

 

[JKS]

Benson relied on too many razor thin decisions, never pulled off those bizarre feats that BJ did for me to place him above.

He didn't but then again, he had a higher level of competition. The close fights he had were with Edgar 2 and Melendez. Diaz and Edgar 1 he won pretty clearly. He was fighting tougher opponents.

But overall considering Benson's best years in WEC and UFC? I don't think it's much of a debate between him and BJ. Between those years he went 15-4 at LW. Won and defended WEC belt 1x and won and defended the UFC belt 3x. He's just done more.

 

[filthybliss]

He didn't but then again, he had a higher level of competition. The close fights he had were with Edgar 2 and Melendez. Diaz and Edgar 1 he won pretty clearly. He was fighting tougher opponents.

But overall considering Benson's best years in WEC and UFC? I don't think it's much of a debate between him and BJ. Between those years he went 15-4 at LW. Won and defended WEC belt 1x and won and defended the UFC belt 3x. He's just done more.

beating hughes,sherk, pulver, sanchez,serra? surviving 3 rounds with machida, beating GSP's face into a pulp? I think so. Those feats knock Benson's out of the park. If you are talking about strictly lw stuff then alright.

 

[JKS]

beating hughes,sherk, pulver, sanchez,serra? surviving 3 rounds with machida, beating GSP's face into a pulp? I think so. Those feats knock Benson's out of the park. If you are talking about strictly lw stuff then alright.

Strictly LW.

 

[pankrat]

View attachment 1042069

Most submissions in the UFC, across two divisions
Wins over Chandler, Gaethje, Poirier, Dariush, Ferguson...
Lost against Islam and Tsarukyan recently
I would put him in the top 5 behind Khabib, Bendo, Penn, Edgar
But it's a toss up between him guys like Dos Anjos, Melendez, Gomi, Ferguson, Poirier (yes, even though he beat the last two)

Isnt Islam above him and the many you mentioned behind?

 

[pankrat]

Strictly LW.

- Both UFC champions with 3 defenses

- BJ lost his 4th defense in a close dec. Benson did by 1st rd submission.

-Gomi and Uno > Varner and Cerrone, in my opinion and probably going by rankings at the time.

- BJ more finishes and UFC bonus

Stricyl LW, I guess its debatable but I favour BJ.
P4P is no discussion.