SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 68 Discussion - Triangle

[Guestx]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info.

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC. Or if you prefer, here's a more detailed examination.


We're taking a trip to Mindfuck City this week, courtesy of @MusterX!

Our Director​

Triangle is directed by CHRISTOPHER SMITH.

I've basically found no bio information on this guy. All I've really got is that he was born in 1970 in Bristol, England.

His first feature was a film called Creep in 2004. Since then, he has made five movies, including the 2010 medieval action-horror film Black Death with Sean Bean.

Our Star​

Melissa George: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0313534/?ref_=tt_cl_t1

Film Overview and YouTube Videos​

Premise: The story revolves around the passengers of a yachting trip in the Atlantic Ocean who, when struck by mysterious weather conditions, jump to another ship only to experience greater havoc on the open seas.

Budget: $12 million
Box Office: $1.5 million

​

Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)​

* The film is set in Miami, Florida, but was filmed entirely in Queensland. Both Florida and Queensland are known as "The Sunshine State"; a nickname used on a road sign in the film.

* It is possible to see the set of the ship at Southport Spit, Southport, Queensland, Australia on Google Earth. The exact coordinates are -27.97293,153.426902.

* The film makes many oblique references to The Shining (1980). The number 237 crops up, which was the same number of the spooky hotel room Danny was forbidden to go into; there are also words written on a mirror, a ballroom and an axe.

* The recording of "Anchors Aweigh" used in the film is performed by Glenn Miller and his Orchestra. The aircraft carrying Glenn Miller to Paris in December 1944 disappeared over the English Channel in what is often considered a "Bermuda Triangle"-type incident.

* Lindsay Lohan was rumored to play the lead role.

* The "Driver" at the end is basically the Ferryman, the entity that delivers lost souls to purgatory. This is exactly what Jess is experiencing and why she'll never escape the repeated circle of The Triangle.

* The film, a British-Australian co-production, was written and directed by Christopher Smith. The UK Film Council awarded 1.6 million pounds ($2.8 million) of public money from the National Lottery fund towards the development, production and distribution of the film. Smith was inspired by Dead of Night and Memento. He wanted to make a circular film that explored déjà vu that avoided using the same elements of Jacob's Ladder.

Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @iThrillhouse @chickenluver @jeicex @MusterX @Coolthulu @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Caveat @FierceRedBelt @RabidJesus

 

[MusterX]

I first saw this movie maybe around 2011. It was not a box office success but in retrospect I think its a better horror movie than most of the horror movies made over the last decade. While far from a perfect film, I really enjoyed it the first time I viewed it and really liked it again for this second viewing. Its just enough of a twist on the horror genre to make it interesting and although there are some plot problems, overall, I think its well done.

Each version of Jess' self knew more than the last version. Her first version was the one boarding the ship, she gets choked by Victor, then her 2nd version was the one that she sees in the mirror and who accidentally kills Victor, then the 3rd version sees herself killing Victor and knows its going to happen, each time, telescoping to a new perspective. Jess kept altering a little at a time, leaving herself notes, throwing Downey overboard, telling Downey and Sally to go to the theater. Then ultimately she becomes overalls and mask version.

There are at least three different versions of Jess that are dressed differently, know different amounts about what is going on, and also have a different mind set. So lets get to know the Jess'.

Jess #1 appears as shorts and sweater Jess. She is the first Jess that boards the ship, and the Jess that wields the axe. She is also choked by Victor or has the gun pointed at her by Jess 1.2

Then you have Jess #2, and Jess #2 appears more run down, same shorts, but no sweater. Jess #2 knows more than Jess #1 about what is going on and is trying to manipulate what Jess #1 is doing. Jess #2 is the reflection Jess #1 sees in the mirror when they are in the ballroom. Jess #2 is also the Jess that tells Downey and Sally to go to the theater. Each version of Jess is like a telescoping of time to a different perspective.

Finally you have Jess #3 who wears overalls and a mask and who knows the most out of everyone and is trying to stop them from getting on the ship to break the cycle.

The problem is that Jess #3 always loses to Jess #1 when they fight.

Jess #3 gets knocked off the boat but when she come to, she appears as Jess #1 as she is walking home. They are the same person after all.

Finally, Jess #1 transforms into Jess #2 when she hits herself in the back of the head with a hammer.

The scene where Sally limps to one of the decks and sees all the bodies, which are all dead Sally's was quite a shocker. What a nightmare. Its a very effective scene at illustrating how many times this has already occurred. It always ends the same for Victor and Sally and Downey, etc. What is different is what happens to Jess. So we have to assume the film is primarily about Jess not being able to get over the way she treated her autistic son. It loops over and over like being in hell, or in this case, purgatory. Its her eternal punishment.

I have more to add but I'll wait for that. I rate this film an 8/10, its a really under rated flick IMO.

 

[Turtlejuice]

I think there was quite a bit of stuff about him on the dvd extras for Severance. Can't remember much about it though and I don't think I've got the dvd any more.

I enjoyed Creep and Severance so might have to dig this out.

 

[Guestx]

Okay . . . Triangle . . . let's do this.

I liked this movie. But there are some things about the film that I'm not sure hold up logically.

First, I'll just say that an attractive lady immediately gives any film SOME amount of watchability, simply because watching an attractive woman do pretty much anything always provides some degree of baseline entertainment. And Melissa George is a pretty good looking girl as well as a talented performer, so from the get-go the film has that going for it.

Second, I'll point out that ships always have a certain quality to them that instantly gives movies that involve them a certain minimum amount of entertainment value. They're kind of like trains in that respect. You set a movie on a train and the movie is already somewhat interesting by sheer virtue of being set on a train.

(really looking forward to the new Murder on the Orient Express)
​

I think the moral of the story thus far is that we need more films with attractive ladies set on ships and trains. And with that much established, I'll move forward.

I think this movie has a lot going for it. On a fairly modest budget (though at $12 million we can't really call it one of our low-budget wonders like Primer or Blue Ruin) they tell a story that is interesting, engaging and that feels fresh and original.

I also feel like our cast does a good job, especially George (as I mentioned) who carries the weight of the film on her shoulders. This is HER movie and everyone else is just along to help her out in her movie.

Visually, I think the film looks nice. In the exterior shots, the cinematographer does a good job of capturing the feel of coastal living. A few shots I did think felt particularly green screeny, which took me out of the movie a bit, but what can you do? That's just the way films have to be shot sometimes, I guess.

(look at them waving their arms so furiously in front of that green screen)​

I also felt like the film was just about the right length. Far too often movies wear out their welcome, but in the case of Triangle it's a brisk 99 minutes. You get in and get out, which I wish was the case with a lot more films these days. It often seems like the art of the 90(ish) minute movie is being forgotten.

There were some things, while watching the movie, that I wasn't quite sure about though.

The biggest one is this: There had to be a first Jess. Whoever the first Jess was, what gave her the idea that she was in some time loop and that the way to reset time was to kill everybody? I mean, think about it, the very first Jess would've boarded the ship and all it would've seemed like was that they had somehow boarded an abandoned ship. So for what reason would she have ever said to herself, "You know what I think is a good idea right now? To fucking kill EVERYBODY!"

Another thing is that we would expect, as the Jesses progress, for things to start playing out wildly differently. For instance, by the third Jess (or thereabouts) she would know that her most recent incarnation is going to attack her with an axe. So, you know, maybe put a plan in motion to avoid that? But she doesn't. It's like she keeps falling for the same shit over and over.

I also was completely confused by the ending. I mean, it seems that in the end, what we're really dealing with is the SPIRIT of Jess, not the physical being. But the rest of the movie plays out as if she's a real person living in the real world. According to the trivia, this whole thing is like a kind of purgatory for Jess. So are we supposed to interpret the WHOLE MOVIE as not actually being the physical reality that we live in, but in fact the whole thing--start to finish--is a recurring spiritual journey that Jess is on?

I dunno, I'm probably gonna have to watch this one again.

But I do like this film. I wouldn't quite put it on the level of Primer or Coherence or Sound of My Voice, but I definitely enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than some of the other fuck-with-your-head films that we've watched like Synecdoche, NY or Cemetery Man.

7.5/10

 

[Guestx]

Jess #1 appears as shorts and sweater Jess. She is the first Jess that boards the ship, and the Jess that wields the axe. She is also choked by Victor or has the gun pointed at her by Jess 1.2

Then you have Jess #2, and Jess #2 appears more run down, same shorts, but no sweater. Jess #2 knows more than Jess #1 about what is going on and is trying to manipulate what Jess #1 is doing. Jess #2 is the reflection Jess #1 sees in the mirror when they are in the ballroom. Jess #2 is also the Jess that tells Downey and Sally to go to the theater. Each version of Jess is like a telescoping of time to a different perspective.

Finally you have Jess #3 who wears overalls and a mask and who knows the most out of everyone and is trying to stop them from getting on the ship to break the cycle.

The problem is that Jess #3 always loses to Jess #1 when they fight.

Jess #3 gets knocked off the boat but when she come to, she appears as Jess #1 as she is walking home. They are the same person after all.

Finally, Jess #1 transforms into Jess #2 when she hits herself in the back of the head with a hammer.

Okay, hold on. . . Are you saying that the Jess that we see at the beginning of the film is the TRUE Jess #1? i.e. we are seeing the very first version of her to board the ship?

Because there is already a Jess on the ship when our original protagonists arrive. Jess is already getting the sense of deja vu and the message to go to the theater is already on the mirror. So clearly this is not the first go-around.

The thing is though, there had to have been a first go around. After all, there are a finite number of lockets that have been dropped down through that grate. And there are a finite number of Sallys who have been killed.

So this process had to start somewhere. But that somewhere isn't the beginning of the movie.

 

[MusterX]

Okay . . . Triangle . . . let's do this.

I liked this movie. But there are some things about the film that I'm not sure hold up logically.

First, I'll just say that an attractive lady immediately gives any film SOME amount of watchability, simply because looking at an attractive woman do pretty much anything always provides some degree of baseline entertainment. And Melissa George is a pretty good looking girl as well as a talented performer, so from the get-go the film has that going for it.

Second, I'll point out that ships always have a certain quality to them that instantly makes movies that involve them have a certain minimum amount of entertainment value. They're kind of like trains in that respect. You set a movie on a train and the movie is already somewhat interesting by sheer virtue of being set on a train.

(really looking forward to the new Murder on the Orient Express)
​

I think the moral of this story thus far is that we need more films with attractive ladies set on ships and trains. And with that much established, I'll move forward.

I think this movie has a lot going for it. On a fairly modest budget (though at $12 million we can't really call it one of our low-budget wonders like Primer or Blue Ruin) they tell a story that is interesting, engaging and that feels fresh and original.

I also feel like our cast does a good job, especially George (as I mentioned) who carries the weight of the film on her shoulders. This is HER movie and everyone else is just along to help her out in her movie.

Visually, I think the film looks nice. In the exterior shots, the cinematographer does a good job of capturing the feel of coastal living. A few shots I did think felt particularly green screeny, which took me out of the movie a bit, but what can you do? That's just the way films have to be shot sometimes, I guess.

(look at them waving their arms so furiously in front of that green screen)​

I also felt like the film was just about the right length. Far too often movies wear out their welcome, but in the case of Triangle it's a brisk 99 minutes. You get in and get out, which I wish was the case with a lot more films these days. It often seems like the art of the 90(ish) minute movie is being forgotten.

There were some things, while watching the movie, that I wasn't quite sure about though.

The biggest one is this: There had to be a first Jess. Whoever the first Jess was, what gave her the idea that she was in some time loop and that the way to reset time was to kill everybody? I mean, think about it, the very first Jess would've boarded the ship and all it would've seemed like was that they had somehow boarded an abandoned ship. So for what reason would she have ever said to herself, "You know what I think is a good idea right now? To fucking kill EVERYBODY!"

Another thing is that we would expect, as the Jesses progress, for things to start playing out wildly differently. For instance, by the third Jess (or thereabouts) she would know that her most recent incarnation is going to attack her with an axe. So, you know, maybe put a plan in motion to avoid that? But she doesn't. It's like she keeps falling for the same shit over and over.

I also was completely confused by the ending. I mean, it seems that in the end, what we're really dealing with is the SPIRIT of Jess, not the physical being. But the rest of the movie plays out as if she's a real person living in the real world. According to the trivia, this whole thing is like a kind of purgatory for Jess. So are we supposed to interpret the WHOLE MOVIE as not actually being the physical reality that we live in, but in fact the whole thing--start to finish--is a recurring spiritual journey that Jess is on?

I dunno, I'm probably gonna have to watch this one again.

But I do like this film. I wouldn't quite put it on the level of Primer or Coherence or Sound of My Voice, but I definitely enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than some of the other fuck-with-your-head films like Synecdoche, NY or Cemetery Man.

7.5/10

I don't think she can put a plan into effect that counters her loss to the axe wielding Jess which I call Jess #1. Some things apparently are not clear memories, which is why she leaves herself notes so she can try to remember. Or like the necklaces that drop over and over through the grate.

Another example would be the bird scene. She thinks she is finally getting away as she races to her doom. This is a great scene that as a viewer made me say oh no, oh no. If you rewatch this scene, which I hope you do, then a couple things I want to point out is that she cannot remember all the details, and also, she is INCREDIBLY close to channeling another actress in another movie. You watch the clip and tell me she isn't Shelly Duvall in the Shining. Her voice even sounds like her.

And the clip.

 

[MusterX]

Okay, hold on. . . Are you saying that the Jess that we see at the beginning of the film is the TRUE Jess #1? i.e. we are seeing the very first version of her to board the ship?

Because there is already a Jess on the ship when our original protagonists arrive. Jess is already getting the sense of deja vu and the message to go to the theater is already on the mirror. So clearly this is not the first go-around.

The thing is though, there had to have been a first go around. After all, there are a finite number of lockets that have been dropped down through that grate. And there are a finite number of Sallys who have been killed.

So this process had to start somewhere. But that somewhere isn't the beginning of the movie.

No, I'm not saying that is "first incarnation Jess", I'm simply placing some numbers and wardrobes on them to separate them and help tell the story. What I call Jess #1, #2, and #3, all wear different clothes and know different amounts of what is happening. They all manifest themselves to get to the end though. Jess #3 is knocked overboard, wakes up and looks like Jess #1 and then transforms in Jess #2 when she kills herself with a hammer and takes the boy which I illustrated with photos above.

We could probably count the Sally's and know about how many times this has been looping. I count at least 26 Sally's in this pic.

 

[Guestx]

I don't think she can put a plan into effect that counters her loss to the axe wielding Jess which I call Jess #1. Some things apparently are not clear memories, which is why she leaves herself notes so she can try to remember. Or like the necklaces that drop over and over through the grate.

Okay, so here's where I feel like the movie becomes a bit problematic. With a film like this, for it to really, truly work, then it has to be 100% logically consistent. That's why Primer is so incredible, because it never breaks its own rules or asks the audience to just accept something that may not really make sense.

So at the end, Jess washes ashore and then heads home. When she gets there, she clearly remembers being on the ship, because as soon as she sees her double she has no problem attacking and killing it. So it's obvious that her getting thrown overboard and going unconscious didn't give her some kind of amnesia where she can't remember anything from before.

So it seems like some things she remembers very clearly. But other things she doesn't remember at all. So what are the rules here?

I suspect that this may be a movie where it's cool and it's fun and it works . . . as long as you don't think too hard about it. Once you start really trying to put it all together, you find holes in the logic. The problem with that is that this is EXACTLY the kind of movie that DEMANDS that you think hard about it.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I didn't like it. I'm just saying that I think it's a clever, but probably ultimately imperfect attempt at a mindbender. I say "probably" because I'm open to someone else explaining it to me to where all the problems clear up and the whole thing makes logical sense.

No, I'm not saying that is "first incarnation Jess", I'm simply placing some numbers and wardrobes on them to separate them and help tell the story. What I call Jess #1, #2, and #3, all wear different clothes and know different amounts of what is happening. They all manifest themselves to get to the end though. Jess #3 is knocked overboard, wakes up and looks like Jess #1 and then transforms in Jess #2 when she kills herself with a hammer and takes the boy which I illustrated with photos above.

We could probably count the Sally's and know about how many times this has been looping. I count at least 26 Sally's in this pic.

What I still want to know is why the first incarnation of Jess started killing people in the first place. I am of course presuming here that there was a very first time Jess went through this cycle--a first time everyone boarded the ship, at which point there was no prior Jess already on board ready to kill everyone. Again, I think that the evidence the film gives us (the lockets, the dead Sallys) supports this idea.

The other possibility is that Jess died in the real world and was then sentenced to this Sisyphus-like task of living this existence over and over and over, a kind of purgatory. And that, paradoxically, the gods made sure that when the first real incarnation of Jess boarded the ship, that there was already another Jess on there to get the ball rolling. And they already deposited a collection of lockets and dead Sallys on board as well, even though Jess had not actually gone through those rotations for those lockets and dead Sallys to be there logically. That would be stupid though and not really supported by the text of the film, so if that's how the filmmakers want us to interpret it then I kind of want to tell them to fuck off.

 

[Guestx]

I think there was quite a bit of stuff about him on the dvd extras for Severance. Can't remember much about it though and I don't think I've got the dvd any more.

I enjoyed Creep and Severance so might have to dig this out.

You should definitely give this film a look if you haven't seen it.

 

[MusterX]

Okay, so here's where I feel like the movie becomes a bit problematic. With a film like this, for it to really, truly work, then it has to be 100% logically consistent. That's why Primer is so incredible, because it never breaks its own rules or asks the audience to just accept something that may not really make sense.

So at the end, Jess washes ashore and then heads home. When she gets there, she clearly remembers being on the ship, because as soon as she sees her double she has no problem attacking and killing it. So it's obvious that her getting thrown overboard and going unconscious didn't give her some kind of amnesia where she can't remember anything from before.

So it seems like some things she remembers very clearly. But other things she doesn't remember at all. So what are the rules here?

I suspect that this may be a movie where it's cool and it's fun and it works . . . as long as you don't think too hard about it. Once you start really trying to put it all together, you find holes in the logic. The problem with that is that this is EXACTLY the kind of movie that DEMANDS that you think hard about it.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I didn't like it. I'm just saying that I think it's a clever, but probably ultimately imperfect attempt at a mindbender. I say "probably" because I'm open to someone else explaining it to me to where all the problems clear up and the whole thing makes logical sense.



What I still want to know is why the first incarnation of Jess started killing people in the first place. I am of course presuming here that there was a very first time Jess went through this cycle--a first time everyone boarded the ship, at which point there was no prior Jess already on board ready to kill everyone. Again, I think that the evidence the film gives us (the lockets, the dead Sallys) supports this idea.

The other possibility is that Jess died in the real world and was then sentenced to this Sisyphus-like task of living this existence over and over and over, a kind of purgatory. And that, paradoxically, the gods made sure that when the first real incarnation of Jess boarded the ship, that there was already another Jess on there to get the ball rolling. And they already deposited a collection of lockets and dead Sallys on board as well, even though Jess had not actually gone through those rotations for those lockets and dead Sallys to be there logically. That would be stupid though and not really supported by the text of the film, so if that's how the filmmakers want us to interpret it then I kind of want to tell them to fuck off.

I found it interesting how the loop was closed. When she gets home and see's her double she kills herself with a hammer to the head. Her double was getting ready to go to the marina to go sailing. So she grabs the kid and tries to escape but then ends up going to the marina, just as her double was about to do. Thus the loop begins again. I understand that there may be some inconsistencies in the film but overall I still felt it was a good watch.

You seem intent on figuring out how the loop began, but the loop, is infinite, meaning it has no beginning or end, it just is. You have to try to understand what I'm saying here. If she is in purgatory, in some infinite or near infinite punishment, then the loop may have no beginning at all. It just is. On the other hand, if you want to go at it from a different angle then maybe they all got on the ship originally and died one by one to madness, starvation, murder, what have you, and then the loop began again. Maybe she woke up on the beach, went home, saw here double, and it just started that way. Maybe she didn't decide to kill everyone until multiple times through the loop. I have no way of knowing.

Perhaps when the storm happened they all died and she was just dead and the loop began that way, which you don't like, but to me it doesn't really matter. At least not in this case. I didn't feel it was a big enough detractor from the film to make me not like it. I enjoyed the view both times I watched it. In the end, I understood it had some flaws but I feel the overall film overcame most of its flaws to present an entertaining horror film with a twist.

 

[Guestx]

I found it interesting how the loop was closed. When she gets home and see's her double she kills herself with a hammer to the head. Her double was getting ready to go to the marina to go sailing. So she grabs the kid and tries to escape but then ends up going to the marina, just as her double was about to do. Thus the loop begins again. I understand that there may be some inconsistencies in the film but overall I still felt it was a good watch.

You seem intent on figuring out how the loop began, but the loop, is infinite, meaning it has no beginning or end, it just is. You have to try to understand what I'm saying here. If she is in purgatory, in some infinite or near infinite punishment, then the loop may have no beginning at all. It just is. On the other hand, if you want to go at it from a different angle then maybe they all got on the ship originally and died one by one to madness, starvation, murder, what have you, and then the loop began again. Maybe she woke up on the beach, went home, saw here double, and it just started that way. Maybe she didn't decide to kill everyone until multiple times through the loop. I have no way of knowing.

Perhaps when the storm happened they all died and she was just dead and the loop began that way, which you don't like, but to me it doesn't really matter. At least not in this case. I didn't feel it was a big enough detractor from the film to make me not like it. I enjoyed the view both times I watched it. In the end, I understood it had some flaws but I feel the overall film overcame most of its flaws to present an entertaining horror film with a twist.

Well I think a film like this isn't like Transformers. It's not a "turn your brain off" kind of film. It's a puzzle. It WANTS you to try to figure it out. So that's what I'm trying to do.

Even if it's a closed loop, it had to begin somewhere. If it's purgatory, did it begin with her death at some point?

I think my interest in how this all began has to do with the accumulation of lockets and Sallys. She loses a locket and it falls on the pile. When she comes back around she'll add another one. Well that had to start somewhere, with a single locket. Same with the Sallys. So that points to a beginning. If the writers didn't want me to interpret it that way, they shouldn't have included those details.

I also brought up memory. Why does she clearly remember some things but not others? I don't know. The film doesn't really give us an explanation.

How does she get out of this loop? I read something earlier where someone said that the cab driver represents the ferryman Charon to escort her across the river Styx. But you have to pay him. She never chooses to pay him, but tells him to keep the meter running and that she'll be back. Once she decides to pay him she get can get out of the loop.

In any case, like I said before, I'm not saying I didn't like the movie. I gave it a 7.5 and have already recommended it to two other friends.

 

[the muntjac]

This movie is very similar to the 2007 Spanish film Timecrimes. However, in Timecrimes, the time loop is given an explanation, whereas in Triangle, the loop is left unexplained much like in Bill Murray's Ground Hog Day.

The following spoiler gives away plot points in Timecrimes, so I'd suggest not reading it if you're curious to watch it.

Spoiler

This movie also has the protagonist become the adversary because of events throughout the loops, and he also dons a full body costume (a long jacket in this) and covers his head with a makeshift mask (bandages) with small eyeholes. This makes me think that Triangle's director and writer, Christopher Smith saw this movie beforehand.

Anyways, back to Triangle. I started this off thinking I wasn't going to like it, but it got better as it went on. Main problem I had at first is that besides Jess, none of the characters are all that interesting. They're all pretty bland and are basically just plot devices to keep things rolling. What was even the point of Heather? She never makes it onto the boat, and her character is gone shortly after the movie begins, so I'm at a loss with her. Jess even started off a little bland herself, but the mystery of what's happening makes her more compelling as it goes on.

The time loop mystery was neat. We watch Jess get caught following actions she must have repeated dozens of times only to keep failing. Sure, no explanation is really given to why it starts and why it's happening, but I was fine with it happening because they sailed into a weird storm out in the ocean that somehow transported them into an alternative timeline. There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call...Hey-Just-Roll-With-It-And-Have-Some-Fun Zone.

Btw, I've been watching a lot of Twilight Zone lately (great show) and I guess it's just put me in the mood to just accept the weird realities in which our characters live in because hey, it's fun.

All right, keep getting sidetracked. One thing I noticed which I thought clever on the director's part is when we first see the group board the ship, there are shots of them from a perspective as if somebody is watching them. Later on, we see Jess watching them from those very spots. It was a nice touch of detail.

As for understanding the mystery, it appears Jess is cursed much like the Greek figure Sisyphus who must carry out a laborious task only to fail at it, and must do so again and again. We always see a future version of Jess get beaten by a past version of herself, as if she can never get the upper hand on herself to be able to stop the cycle in time. She always get thwarted by herself before she can accomplish her task. Perhaps she'll never be able to stop it, and this violent, miserable cycle now becomes her life. She always seems to make it worse, and even at one point she gets her own son involved in the loop to get killed over and over.

So why is she cursed, you may ask. Well, maybe because she's a shitbag mother who emotionally and physically beats her autistic child. The scene where she sees herself hit her son and then immediately goes and gets a hammer to bludgeon herself with was actually kinda impactful in more ways than one. People love and want to protect their children at any cost that even if they can see themselves hurting them, they immediately want to beat somebody to death, even if it's themselves. Her guilt of how she treats her son is very well the reason she is cursed, and now she's punishing herself. She knows her son is dead from the car wreck, but that's a nightmare reality, so she pretends there's a reality where he's just waiting for her to pick him up from school. Now if only she can break the cycle, she can get to him...

I liked it, but didn't love it. The attention to detail was nice, the acting was fine, and the mystery and time loops were interesting. Seeing her go from a reluctant murderer to a stone cold killer was cool. As I said earlier, the characters were kinda meh, and I feel like I already saw a better version of this in Timecrimes. There's some plotholes regarding the timelooping and the way Jess handles a few things, but if I start down that road, this post will just get longer, and I feel this got too long as it is.

 

[MusterX]

Well I think a film like this isn't like Transformers. It's not a "turn your brain off" kind of film. It's a puzzle. It WANTS you to try to figure it out. So that's what I'm trying to do.

Even if it's a closed loop, it had to begin somewhere. If it's purgatory, did it begin with her death at some point?

I think my interest in how this all began has to do with the accumulation of lockets and Sallys. She loses a locket and it falls on the pile. When she comes back around she'll add another one. Well that had to start somewhere, with a single locket. Same with the Sallys. So that points to a beginning. If the writers didn't want me to interpret it that way, they shouldn't have included those details.

I also brought up memory. Why does she clearly remember some things but not others? I don't know. The film doesn't really give us an explanation.

How does she get out of this loop? I read something earlier where someone said that the cab driver represents the ferryman Charon to escort her across the river Styx. But you have to pay him. She never chooses to pay him, but tells him to keep the meter running and that she'll be back. Once she decides to pay him she get can get out of the loop.

In any case, like I said before, I'm not saying I didn't like the movie. I gave it a 7.5 and have already recommended it to two other friends.

This is why the writers of Rick and Morty said they weren't going to do time travel stuff and instead opted for the many worlds theory. Time travel can be difficult to get right and sometimes causes paradoxes and all sorts of problems that are difficult to understand. Coherence also took the many worlds route. The time loop in Triangle tried to go a more difficult route and may have failed somewhat at that aspect, things like where did the loop begin. The director could have gone out of his way to explain how the loop began but he would need a smart writer and the length of the film would go beyond the neat 90 minutes that you like.

I'm saying this, if its purgatory then that means that she died on the sail boat with everyone else in the storm. In purgatory she is trying to pay for her sins, chiefly the treatment of her autistic son.

pur·ga·to·ry
[ˈpərɡəˌtôrē]
NOUN

1. (in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven.

I'm saying that in this scenario, there doesn't have to be a beginning to the loop. She is experiencing the day she went sailing over and over, which includes the treatment of her son, and her own death. So in this scenario the loop could be divinely ordained so to speak, all set up and ready to go and I know that irritates the shit out of you but its all I have right now. I might watch some Triangle videos and see what other people have come up with.

 

[Guestx]

This is why the writers of Rick and Morty said they weren't going to do time travel stuff and instead opted for the many worlds theory. Time travel can be difficult to get right and sometimes causes paradoxes and all sorts of problems that are difficult to understand. Coherence also took the many worlds route. The time loop in Triangle tried to go a more difficult route and may have failed somewhat at that aspect, things like where did the loop begin. The director could have gone out of his way to explain how the loop began but he would need a smart writer and the length of the film would go beyond the neat 90 minutes that you like.

I'm saying this, if its purgatory then that means that she died on the sail boat with everyone else in the storm. In purgatory she is trying to pay for her sins, chiefly the treatment of her autistic son.

pur·ga·to·ry
[ˈpərɡəˌtôrē]
NOUN

1. (in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven.

I'm saying that in this scenario, there doesn't have to be a beginning to the loop. She is experiencing the day she went sailing over and over, which includes the treatment of her son, and her own death. So in this scenario the loop could be divinely ordained so to speak, all set up and ready to go and I know that irritates the shit out of you but its all I have right now. I might watch some Triangle videos and see what other people have come up with.

I don't think it's time travel or anything scientific. Clearly something supernatural is going on here. They didn't tell us about the myth of Sysiphus for nothing.

I don't think it's purgatory proper--i.e. Roman Catholic purgatory--but I think it IS a purgatory-like experience. Even purgatory begins at some point though, like when you die. So that's the beginning.

The problem I have with saying she died on the boat is that clearly this is not her first go-around. Lockets and Sallys. But even if you push that off the table, you have to remember that at the beginning Liam Hemsworth's character--he was a surprise BTW, didn't expect to see someone with such high name value in this--mentions that Jess seems frazzled and fucked up and not all there mentally. Why? Well that's explained, because she's already in the loop and killed her double and is now running off with her child and her mind is going in a thousand directions at once.

So it seems that when we're dropped into the movie, she's already in the loop and has also already made several go arounds. If it's purgatory, and she's dead, then she died sometime long before the actual beginning of the film.

Side note, I do like the cab driver = ferryman interpretation. It makes sense. He's clearly a supernatural being of some kind.

 

[Guestx]

Also, where the fuck is everybody today?

It's like they got stuck in their own loop somewhere and can't escape to make it to the Movie Club.

 

[MusterX]

This movie is very similar to the 2007 Spanish film Timecrimes. However, in Timecrimes, the time loop is given an explanation, whereas in Triangle, the loop is left unexplained much like in Bill Murray's Ground Hog Day.

The following spoiler gives away plot points in Timecrimes, so I'd suggest not reading it if you're curious to watch it.

Spoiler

This movie also has the protagonist become the adversary because of events throughout the loops, and he also dons a full body costume (a long jacket in this) and covers his head with a makeshift mask (bandages) with small eyeholes. This makes me think that Triangle's director and writer, Christopher Smith saw this movie beforehand.

Anyways, back to Triangle. I started this off thinking I wasn't going to like it, but it got better as it went on. Main problem I had at first is that besides Jess, none of the characters are all that interesting. They're all pretty bland and are basically just plot devices to keep things rolling. What was even the point of Heather? She never makes it onto the boat, and her character is gone shortly after the movie begins, so I'm at a loss with her. Jess even started off a little bland herself, but the mystery of what's happening makes her more compelling as it goes on.

The time loop mystery was neat. We watch Jess get caught following actions she must have repeated dozens of times only to keep failing. Sure, no explanation is really given to why it starts and why it's happening, but I was fine with it happening because they sailed into a weird storm out in the ocean that somehow transported them into an alternative timeline. There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call...Hey-Just-Roll-With-It-And-Have-Some-Fun Zone.

Btw, I've been watching a lot of Twilight Zone lately (great show) and I guess it's just put me in the mood to just accept the weird realities in which our characters live in because hey, it's fun.

All right, keep getting sidetracked. One thing I noticed which I thought clever on the director's part is when we first see the group board the ship, there are shots of them from a perspective as if somebody is watching them. Later on, we see Jess watching them from those very spots. It was a nice touch of detail.

As for understanding the mystery, it appears Jess is cursed much like the Greek figure Sisyphus who must carry out a laborious task only to fail at it, and must do so again and again. We always see a future version of Jess get beaten by a past version of herself, as if she can never get the upper hand on herself to be able to stop the cycle in time. She always get thwarted by herself before she can accomplish her task. Perhaps she'll never be able to stop it, and this violent, miserable cycle now becomes her life. She always seems to make it worse, and even at one point she gets her own son involved in the loop to get killed over and over.

So why is she cursed, you may ask. Well, maybe because she's a shitbag mother who emotionally and physically beats her autistic child. The scene where she sees herself hit her son and then immediately goes and gets a hammer to bludgeon herself with was actually kinda impactful in more ways than one. People love and want to protect their children at any cost that even if they can see themselves hurting them, they immediately want to beat somebody to death, even if it's themselves. Her guilt of how she treats her son is very well the reason she is cursed, and now she's punishing herself. She knows her son is dead from the car wreck, but that's a nightmare reality, so she pretends there's a reality where he's just waiting for her to pick him up from school. Now if only she can break the cycle, she can get to him...

I liked it, but didn't love it. The attention to detail was nice, the acting was fine, and the mystery and time loops were interesting. Seeing her go from a reluctant murderer to a stone cold killer was cool. As I said earlier, the characters were kinda meh, and I feel like I already saw a better version of this in Timecrimes. There's some plotholes regarding the timelooping and the way Jess handles a few things, but if I start down that road, this post will just get longer, and I feel this got too long as it is.

Aww, fuck, I forgot about Sisyphus who they mention when touring the ship. Good catch man. Also good catch with Time Crimes having a protagonist/antagonist that wore a trench coat and a mask whiel experiencing a time loop. I also noticed that Jess #3, the overalls and mask Jess, was not able to overcome Jess #1, which was the Jess that boarded the ship and was wearing shorts and a sweater. Jess #1, who doesn't really know what is going on, is always able to defeat Jess #3 who knows what is happening. that in its self is like being in hell, always stopped by yourself.

I also found it a bit of a shocker how at the beginning of the film we are led to believe she is a loving caring mother but at the end we see her true colors and how abusive she is to her son, and thus her guilt. Her decision to kill that part of her, to hit her in the head with a hammer so she could never hurt the boy again is pretty damn cogent to the idea of purgatory and guilt and paying for ones sins because she literally killed that version of herself over and over. That's tough business to see yourself, know its you, then go to work with a claw hammer.

 

[MusterX]

I don't think it's time travel or anything scientific. Clearly something supernatural is going on here. They didn't tell us about the myth of Sysiphus for nothing.

I don't think it's purgatory proper--i.e. Roman Catholic purgatory--but I think it IS a purgatory-like experience. Even purgatory begins at some point though, like when you die. So that's the beginning.

The problem I have with saying she died on the boat is that clearly this is not her first go-around. Lockets and Sallys. But even if you push that off the table, you have to remember that at the beginning Liam Hemsworth's character--he was a surprise BTW, didn't expect to see someone with such high name value in this--mentions that Jess seems frazzled and fucked up and not all there mentally. Why? Well that's explained, because she's already in the loop and killed her double and is now running off with her child and her mind is going in a thousand directions at once.

So it seems that when we're dropped into the movie, she's already in the loop and has also already made several go arounds. If it's purgatory, and she's dead, then she died sometime long before the actual beginning of the film.

Side note, I do like the cab driver = ferryman interpretation. It makes sense. He's clearly a supernatural being of some kind.

I went back and watched the car crash scene and it just now occurred to me that Jess likely died in a car crash with her son, and not on the boat. The Taxi Driver being the ferryman is there, at the scene of her death, right on que and we know he wasn't an actual taxi driver because who goes to the scene of a fatality to try to pick up a passenger? So if the loop began at the scene of her car accident then that means she was taking her son to school or something so she could go boating and died in the crash. The Ferryman then takes her on to the destination that she was originally planning to go.

 

[Guestx]

I went back and watched the car crash scene and it just now occurred to me that Jess likely died in a car crash with her son, and not on the boat. The Taxi Driver being the ferryman is there, at the scene of her death, right on que and we know he wasn't an actual taxi driver because who goes to the scene of a fatality to try to pick up a passenger? So if the loop began at the scene of her car accident then that means she was taking her son to school or something so she could go boating and died in the crash. The Ferryman then takes her on to the destination that she was originally planning to go.

I thought about that as well and agree. I mean, if the driver was a regular human being he also would've been spooked by seeing the same person dead on the pavement and also alive standing next to him. Of course you could say like, "Oh, well maybe he didn't see her face. . ." or whatever, but everything about his behavior indicates that he's not a regular person.

If in fact the movie includes information about her death, then it's the car crash, which is pretty poignant.

It's time for Triangle 2: Escape from Purgatory.

 

[MusterX]

@shadow_priest_x

I also just noticed that the name of the ship is the Aeolus.

A quick search reveals this.

Aeolus, a name shared by three mythical characters, was the ruler of the winds in Greek mythology. These three personages are often difficult to tell apart, and even the ancient mythographers appear to have been perplexed about which Aeolus was which. Diodorus Siculus made an attempt to define each of these three (although it is clear that he also became muddled), and his opinion is followed here.

Three persons, difficult to tell apart.....

There were 3 main versions of Jess that I detailed as #1, #2, and #3. Also interesting that Aeolus is close to Aeon which is defined as eternity, or in astronomy as a billion years.

 

[Guestx]

@shadow_priest_x

I also just noticed that the name of the ship is the Aeolus.

A quick search reveals this.

Aeolus, a name shared by three mythical characters, was the ruler of the winds in Greek mythology. These three personages are often difficult to tell apart, and even the ancient mythographers appear to have been perplexed about which Aeolus was which. Diodorus Siculus made an attempt to define each of these three (although it is clear that he also became muddled), and his opinion is followed here.

Three persons, difficult to tell apart.....

There were 3 main versions of Jess that I detailed as #1, #2, and #3. Also interesting that Aeolus is close to Aeon which is defined as eternity, or in astronomy as a billion years.

Hmm, an interesting find.

I have to say, I think the filmmakers here had an interesting premise to work from. It makes me wonder what other ancient myths could be mined for inspiration for new story ideas.