SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 55 Discussion - Bone Tomahawk

I would definitely recommend Tombstone over Unforgiven. It's not that Unforgiven isn't great, but it's not Tombstone.

I wouldn't necessarily say that Tombstone is BETTER than Unforgiven. But I would watch the western and then the anti-western. It's kind of fun to think of William Munny as an older and more mellowed out Johnny Ringo in an alternate world.
 
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Should we eject chickenluver from the Club for refusing to watch Tombstone?

It seems that some standards simply must be enforced.
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I liked Tombstone. Lots of good lines and a great cast. Goes without saying that Val Kilmer stole the show. He had all the best lines and his delivery was perfect. "I'm your huckleberry" is suck a fucking good line lmao. There were many, but that one was so good they had to use it twice. Crazy that he was dying from TB the whole movie.

The Cowboys were a bunch of spineless bitches. They talked mad shit then would get slapped and have their guns taken from them. Then after the lawmen come take their guns and kill them when they resist, they march the funeral around with a big banner that says murdered in the streets of Tombstone. So full of shit. Fuck those guys. Powers Booth was great as the leader, but the way he went out was kind of lame. I didn't like Ringo that much.

The Kurt Russel/Dana Delany romance didn't do much for me. I thought all her scenes could have been cut and I wouldn't have missed her. That ending was corny. Mrs. Earp was no daisy either.

That stage show that came to town looked incredible. If I was living there and then it would have been a godsend. Billy Zane reciting Shakespeare's St. Crispin's Day speech (GOAT speech), a pantomime performance of Marlowe's Faust (Goethe's Faust?) set to Camille Saint-Saens's Dance Macabre?
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Some terrible mistake seems to have happened during the editing process. They accidentally put in an additional montage scene of them riding around slaughtering nameless mooks AFTER the last shoot out between Doc and Ringo.

I kind of wish they had made a movie centered around Kilmer's Doc Holliday instead of the Earp brothers.

So after this movie Kurt Russel waited 22 years before doing another Western and then made 2 in one year?
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I liked Tombstone.

All right man, I'm happy to reinstate you! You earned it!


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Lots of good lines and a great cast. Goes without saying that Val Kilmer stole the show.

It really does. I mean, you didn't even have to say it right then!

He had all the best lines and his delivery was perfect. "I'm your huckleberry" is suck a fucking good line lmao. There were many, but that one was so good they had to use it twice.

He is fucking INCREDIBLE! This is, in my opinion at least, EASILY his best performance of his entire career. It's his signature win.

I cannot say enough good shit about how he elevates the film to such a high level just because of how fucking awesome Doc is and what a joy he is to watch.


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Powers Booth was great as the leader, but the way he went out was kind of lame. I didn't like Ringo that much.

Boothe is awesome. Why didn't you like Ringo? I think he's a great villain. Biehn is almost as good at playing Ringo as Kilmer is at playing Doc.

"I want your blood. And I want your souls. And I want them both right now!"

That stage show that came to town looked incredible. If I was living there and then it would have been a godsend. Billy Zane reciting Shakespeare's St. Crispin's Day speech (GOAT speech), a pantomime performance of Marlowe's Faust (Goethe's Faust?) set to Camille Saint-Saens's Dance Macabre?

That does seem like something you'd be into. I have to say, if I were in a little town like that I'm sure I'd be pretty thankful for some big city entertainment as well.

Then again, Tombstone is very cosmopolitan. The die is cast. They are growing. Be as big as San Francisco in a few years and just as sophisticated.

Some terrible mistake seems to have happened during the editing process. They accidentally put in an additional montage scene of them riding around slaughtering nameless mooks AFTER the last shoot out between Doc and Ringo.

I can't seem to recall exactly how the last act works itself out, but I don't remember feeling this way.

So after this movie Kurt Russel waited 22 years before doing another Western and then made 2 in one year?
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I know, it's pretty wild.

So I have to ask, do you now understand why we were so insistent that you watch it? Would you say it met, fell below, or exceeded your expectations?
 
I guess I'm a minority opinion on this one but I thought it was a complete waste of time lol. It baffles me that the dialogue was considered praiseworthy by anyone.

That said I'm not fan of the Western or Horror genres in general, so I suspect the art of the craft of splicing them together is lost on me.

I regret that we couldn't have watched The Hateful Eight instead.
 
I guess I'm a minority opinion on this one but I thought it was a complete waste of time lol. It baffles me that the dialogue was considered praiseworthy by anyone.

That said I'm not fan of the Western or Horror genres in general, so I suspect the art of the craft of splicing them together is lost on me.

I regret that we couldn't have watched The Hateful Eight instead.

Wow, "complete waste of time." That's rough.

So are there any Westerns you DO like?
 
Biehn is almost as good at playing Ringo as Kilmer is at playing Doc.

"I want your blood. And I want your souls. And I want them both right now!"

George P. Cosmatos got some good stuff out of him. A substantially underrated director.
 
I agree he's good, but have you heard the rumors surrounding the movie's direction?

Some of them.

The only scene officially not credited to Cosmatos is the Heston stuff, and that always stood out to me as the worst scene in the movie.
 
Wow, "complete waste of time." That's rough.

So are there any Westerns you DO like?

Yea I spent the duration of the film alternating between being bored and rolling my eyes tbh. It felt like a parody of a Western with violent stacattos inserted because they're supposed to be cool or something. I was left with the impression that the whole thing was a joke I wasn't in on, and that trying to take it seriously actually made the experience worse.

Are we really supposed to believe that after all the controversy surrounding peg leg's peg leg, that he was simply able to pick up his wife and trot back home again for however many days without that being an issue? I imagine the combination of morphine and sexy nurse wife is pretty stimulating, but they didn't even try to figure out if the stolen horses were around to ride back, which I figured was their only hope.

Since it's been mentioned itt already, Unforgiven is a film that emerged from the Western genre that I appreciate, though I've also heard it referred to as an anti-Western of sorts, which is probably why I like it.
 
Yea I spent the duration of the film alternating between being bored and rolling my eyes tbh. It felt like a parody of a Western with violent stacattos inserted because they're supposed to be cool or something. I was left with the impression that the whole thing was a joke I wasn't in on, and that trying to take it seriously actually made the experience worse.

Are we really supposed to believe that after all the controversy surrounding peg leg's peg leg, that he was simply able to pick up his wife and trot back home again for however many days without that being an issue? I imagine the combination of morphine and sexy nurse wife is pretty stimulating, but they didn't even try to figure out if the stolen horses were around to ride back, which I figured was their only hope.

Since it's been mentioned itt already, Unforgiven is a film that emerged from the Western genre that I appreciate, though I've also heard it referred to as an anti-Western of sorts, which is probably why I like it.

Well I just don't know how to respond to that. While I would agree with your comment on the likelihood of peg leg making it back home successfully--a point that I myself had brought up in an earlier post--I disagree with the rest. I found the story to be an interesting twist on an old tale (Cowboys and Indians), and thought that the performances, the characters and the dialogue were all excellent.

It's probably my favorite Western of the last 10 years.
 
Watched this last night at 2am. I really fucking liked it.

Reminded me of Alien. a slow burn that didn't rely on cheap tricks to scare the audience...The trogladites were genuinely terrifying in both appearance and sound... when they're in the valley and you hear their howl it was genuinely a "oh these guys are fucked" reaction....not the typical "they'll be fine"

What made it great was they turned a pretty standard western story but told it through 4 very interesting characters. Jenkins as Chicory was fantastic. Russell was a better cowboy in this than in Hateful Eight, much more subtle of a performance. Matthew Fox was equally charming

I liked that this movie took familiar western tropes and flipped them on their head. Once they get ambushed, everything gets flipped on its head. Fox,the guy we expect to go Rambo, basically dies with no glory, Russell goes out like a boss instead of the guy who was saying goodbye to his wifes tombstone. And the guy who the movie seemingly leaves behind, somehow on one leg takes out quite the terrifying force through cunning and sheer luck. The indians shooting his hat on the rock as he's sleeping was so clever because it was so believable. All the action just felt so real. and every character action/decision was pretty sound logically, it didn't have smart people doing dumb things to progress the movie.

THE SCENE was fucking brutal. The movie did a great job setting up the Trogs as a brutal villain...and fuck me, that little scene was enough to prove it.


Also I love this movies lack of soundtrack, and in place the sound of barren valleys and the horrifying howls of the trogladyte clan.

I think I prefer this over Hateful Eight. Performances were more sincere, and way less hammy, and the story was actually captivating and exciting...a great slow burn of a film

10/10
 
Watched this last night at 2am. I really fucking liked it.

You see @Caveat, this is how it's done bro. Not none of that "what's the the point" or whatever it was you said. What was it? Oh, "complete waste of time."

What made it great was they turned a pretty standard western story but told it through 4 very interesting characters. Jenkins as Chicory was fantastic. Russell was a better cowboy in this than in Hateful Eight, much more subtle of a performance. Matthew Fox was equally charming

Agreed. The characters and their interactions with each other were really what MAKE the movie. With lesser performers, or less well-written characters, or more poorly written dialogue, the film wouldn't be nearly the film that it is.

Because the story itself is quite simple.

I think I prefer this over Hateful Eight. Performances were more sincere, and way less hammy, and the story was actually captivating and exciting...a great slow burn of a film

10/10

I agree. I've now watched Bone Tomahawk three times. I've seen The Hateful Eight once. I enjoy The Hateful Eight but this movie was really something special.

What's really amazing is that Bone Tomahawk only cost $1.8 million, whereas most reports I've read have The Hateful Eight's budget around $50 million. I always love it when filmmakers find their way around having a tiny budget and craft a film that can compete with much bigger films.
 
You see @Caveat, this is how it's done bro. Not none of that "what's the the point" or whatever it was you said. What was it? Oh, "complete waste of time."



Agreed. The characters and their interactions with each other were really what MAKE the movie. With lesser performers, or less well-written characters, or more poorly written dialogue, the film wouldn't be nearly the film that it is.

Because the story itself is quite simple.



I agree. I've now watched Bone Tomahawk three times. I've seen The Hateful Eight once. I enjoy The Hateful Eight but this movie was really something special.

What's really amazing is that Bone Tomahawk only cost $1.8 million, whereas most reports I've read have The Hateful Eight's budget around $50 million. I always love it when filmmakers find their way around having a tiny budget and craft a film that can compete with much bigger films.

for 1.8 million dollar budget it looks great. there was maybe 1 shot that looked bad, and it was when the 3 boys are crouched looking up at the cave entrance...it jut looked a little hokey. but otherwise the movie looked great.... the scalping scene in particular is incredibly impressive given its budget


I only got 6 hours of sleep last night, so I may try catch up some more, but my brain might shut off soon
 
I wouldn't necessarily say that Tombstone is BETTER than Unforgiven. But I would watch the western and then the anti-western. It's kind of fun to think of William Munny as an older and more mellowed out Johnny Ringo in an alternate world.

Its a movie about a fucking frozen pizza ffs!
 
Ok, let me get this out of the way. Tombstone > Unforgiven. Bone Tomahawk > Hateful Eight. Good. Let's move forward.

I first discovered Bone Tomahawk on demand sometime last year, and I had heard a little critical acclaim about it but didn't know anyone who had seen it (other than a few hardcores in Mayberry) so I didn't think much of it. I decided to check it out, and boy was I pleased. Without a doubt this is one of the best westerns post-2000. I can't think of many others this solid since then other than True Grit's remake, Appaloosa, The Assassination......, No Country, and Django. I worked at a movie theater when Open Range came out, and it was so slow in parts especially after the big shootout. I remember it dragged on, and didn't want to watch it again. But then came Bone Tomahawk, and damn did it deliver.

For a movie with so little budget and a very limited release, you have to wonder what they were going for when they made this. It didn't make much money at all, probably thanks to its incredibly small release, and made a bit over an eighth of its budget back from the box. Sure, it's not about the money, and it's about the art. I'm glad they arted this together. Not a word, I know.

The pace would be expectedly offputting to some, as you can almost clock the first half of the movie to what happens. In the first half hour, we've met the characters and know there's something scary out there that just killed a stableboy. At 45 minutes, they've just struck out to go after those bad things. At one hour, the heroes (or whatever we want to call them) have their first major challenge, losing their rides and hoof it from there on out. At 1:15, the wounded man is left behind. At 1:30, the first hero dies. A few minutes later, we have The Scene. Awesome and brutal. At 1:45 we have the wounded man striking back. At 2:00 we have the final sacrifice. It's almost clockwork how a major plot point happens every 15 minutes. I skipped through the movie just now to make sure I had that right, and I did.

It struck me as such an effective piece of filmmaking that they made this a horror movie without using basically any of the horror tropes out there. There aren't jumpscares, there aren't pointless deaths, there's just enough blood and gore to leave the desensitized audience satisfied, and the music is perfectly fitting in that it's barely present. The distinct lack of ominous/leading music used so often in horror movies to signify a scary thing is about to happen is such a relief. We didn't have the da da dadada DUN thing in every horror movie ever. In fact, for this kind of movie, I think the lack of a score that you heard in every part of every scene was a smart idea. The silence was deafening at times. Sure, we needed the sad frontier-esque music here and there, but for instance when they were trapped in the cave, we didn't hear much of anything. It was beautiful.

The sound did bother me in another way, however, in that some effects were dubbed too loud or overmiced. For instance, when punches were thrown/landed, there was an exaggerated sound. Gunshots were insanely loud, which I am ok with, but thuds, plops and slams were almost all too loud. I don't know if it was for a realism effect or because this movie didn't have an enormous budget. Either way, I noticed. During The Scene, both the sounds of the hacking as well as the sound of the plops were amplified, perhaps to reinforce the fear factor.

I also did not recognize Richard Jenkins as Chicory. He was fantastic, easily the glue or the foundation or whatever you want to call him. Maybe the moral center. We had Brooder, the gun for hire/man with no fear. We had Hunt, the righteous and good sheriff. We had O'Dwyer, the family guy with a bum leg. Chicory was the one that kept them all together and alive, I believe. Either way, three of the men were objectively good men, and the fourth was the "whatever it takes" guy. I enjoyed their dynamic together, especially when Brooder shot those men in the dark and Chicory was chiding him for killing them.

Where did the dynamite go? It was so important for a few minutes, and then never spoken of again. It would have been the perfect way to wrap things up, by blowing up the cave and bringing the walls down on the remaining tribals. I was disappointed when Brooder died and that was it, no more dynamite.

Like others before me, I was also put off when O'Dwyer cut the throat out of the tribal/troglodyte to make the whistle. I thought he said the word "jewelry" so maybe it was a family jewel that was taken and he somehow found it. Much to our surprise, it was just the windpipe that acted as a perfect lure for the remaining tribals.

I keep using the word "tribal" to describe the villains because they significantly remind me of the villainous White Legs tribals in the game Fallout New Vegas, which is another cannibalistic and somewhat crazed group of tribesmen that paint themselves white and kill for the sake of killing, and they are led by a maniac chief wearing a mandible named Salt-Upon-Wounds.

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Anyway, fantastic western horror. Loved watching it again even though I saw it last year. Just as thrilling as before. 8.5/10. War Kurt Russell.
 
What makes this film stand out to me are subtle things such as the sparing yet effective use of music, the absence of overbearing jump scare sound effects, the unflinching framing and editing during scenes of action and brutality, and how abruptly we go from a setting of tense calmness to shit hitting the fan in the matter of seconds. This film may be just the tired, simple story of the good guys rescuing the girl from the bad guys, but be damned if it doesn't leave a bigger impression than just that.


What also makes this film stand apart are the characters. What makes good characters? Well, their dialogue and interactions with each other, and the people playing them. This movie's got it. I particularly enjoy Chicory because even though he's an older man with limited ability and he's a doofus, he's all heart. When Mrs. O'Dwyer lies to him about the flea circus to make him feel better, his reaction gave me the feels to the point where I wanted to jump in the screen and save him from the troglodytes. I didn't realize Richard Jenkins was the same guy I've seen in countless other movies until I looked him up after watching this for the first time. He's one of those actors you see and say, "Hey it's that guy," but you can never think of his name. Wow, did he immerse himself in this role that I didn't even recognize him. Great stuff.


Perhaps I have a few hang ups with the film, and one is how Mrs. O'Dwyer didn't seem roughed up at all when they find her in the cave. This is a tribe a cannibal, uncivilized men that incapacitate their women to just be breeders, and you're telling me she wasn't gang raped as soon as they got her back there? Yeah, it's sick, but this action fit the bill for these villains. Perhaps the movie didn't want to come off as that dark, which I guess I can understand, but it's just one facet that doesn't feel genuine to me. Heck, I'll compromise with she should have at least looked more roughed up. She was still way too pristine looking considering her environment and situation. It all felt a little too convenient for me, and kinda cheapened her rescue.


Another thing, Chicory mentions at one point how nothing could ever bring him to kill a woman or a child. When he sees the pregnant trog women with their limbs cut off and eyes gouged out, I feel this is what could have pushed his limit to take a woman's life because he would have been doing it out of mercy. We saw Brooder put his horse out of its misery earlier on, so when I first watched this I took that as foreshadowing for Chicory to do the same to the trog women when he finds them, but then they just leave. I feel they missed an opportunity there.


Regardless, great film, and I enjoyed it very much. The, "Say goodbye to my wife, and I'll say hello to yours," line. Awesome. The killing of the deputy is probably one of the most brutal deaths in film history. Honestly, I can't think of another one more disturbing right now.
Agreed on all points.


The "Sat goodbye to my wife and I'll say hello to yours" was awesome.



I kept hearing buzz about this film on here so I checked it out.

9/10.


It was fantastic.

few reasons why it didn't get a 10 from me.

1. the opening scene. I almost turned it off. It just sucked. I get that the director wanted to appease horror fans, but I really didn't like that scene. I felt the dialogue wasn't authentic and the actors wernt convincing. It was just bad


2. I didn't like the crazy screaming and weird shit in the cannibals throats



I'm nitpicking. I enjoyed it alot
 
1. the opening scene. I almost turned it off. It just sucked. I get that the director wanted to appease horror fans, but I really didn't like that scene. I felt the dialogue wasn't authentic and the actors wernt convincing. It was just bad

Hmm, interesting. That scene produced one of my favorite movie lines of all time:

"This is not the time for womanly imaginings."

I keep waiting for the perfect opportunity to use it in real life.
 
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