Sexual Harassment- It's nearly time for clemency (opinion)

Fawlty

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No article here, but if you have one that touches on this idea I'd like to read it.


It's wisest and most moral to start off by recognizing that the recent claims of these women are, by and large, true. Too many men have taken advantage of a tilted system for a very long time, and the remnants of acceptable sexual harassment and work discrimination (even in nontraditional environments like Hollywood) need to be snuffed out. The women who were abused and who felt they couldn't speak up at the time should be heard, and their claims should be evaluated fairly. The mass outing of sexual predators and misconduct is proper and good for the future.

However, granting the claim that this is a systemic problem is also an admission that the responsibility is spread throughout the system. In this case, the system is the entire American work environment. When problems are systemic, individual punishment and responsibility must be adjusted accordingly. Those most in control of their environments and affecting the most people, and who do the most harm, are the people who should be judged the most harshly. This includes the Harvey Weinsteins and the Roy Moores. The "ringleaders" who set the example from their positions of authority and influence.

But as we move down to the Charlie Roses (unless more has come out since I last checked) and the Louis CKs, we encounter less serious offenses, but they should still be aired- the women deserve to be heard. There should be some consequences. But they also deserve a chance to straighten up.

We need a period of clemency. In exchange for the fair hearing of the complaints, and the recognition that the system is undergoing necessary change, men should from this point backwards be judged a little less harshly for their indiscretions. And from this point forward, judged by the stricter standards that have all but become the norm in the workplace. There is something genuinely unsettling about holding full court on every bad act from 1985, or even 2005. It's not a witch hunt, but it's also not quite striking the chord of justice that it should.

There isn't any way to institute this idea, but it should still be argued for. That means that men shouldn't be calling this a witch hunt, or reacting in some other cynical way, and it means accepting the terms of today in good faith going forward. It also means that women shouldn't expect their harassers (in most instances) from five, ten, or thirty years ago to lose their jobs.

If the problem is in the system, the responsibility exists throughout. Can't have it both ways. If you want to maximize individual accountability, you must lower the blame against the system. If you want systemic change, you must lower individual accountability. Forgive, and forget if it's appropriate, but you have to forgive.
 
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Let's not conflate Hollywood and lifestyles of the rich & famous with the average American work environment.
 
Louis CK's career is over Fawlty-bud, get over it.
 
And you can't even coerce a woman to have sex anymore without being brought up on charges.

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Louis CK's career is over Fawlty-bud, get over it.

LOL, the butthurt is reals
 
There's an article coming out about me in the NYTimes tomorrow, just trying to head this shit off at the pass.
 
Let's not conflate Hollywood and lifestyles of the rich & famous with the average American work environment.
You can have that if you want, because it's not central to the argument. The problem is still systemic.
 
There's an article coming out about me in the NYTimes tomorrow, just trying to head this shit off at the pass.
I assume you have accordingly booked yourself into a treatment program and will return to take it to Trump and the NRA.
 
I assume you have accordingly booked yourself into a treatment program and will return to take it to Trump and the NRA.
Yeah obv. Couldn't afford Israeli spies so I got some of the latchkey kiddos from the cul-de-sac. They're good with computers and stuff.
 
@Fawlty likes to masturbate in front of broads with or without their consent confirmed.
 
I think moderation is what people need to exercise.

Yes, it is bad if a man steals a kiss from a woman, or gropes them, or whatever, but it's not worth ruining someone's decades-long career for.

The punishment needs to fit the crime. The best punishment for most of these guys is an apology and a promise to never do it again. Of course, the ones who exceeded the criminal extent (the Harvey Weinstein's, arguably) ought to be ostracized, but for the most part we are talking about misbehaviour rather than outright criminal behaviour.

The standard that is being set here, a sort of retro throwback to the theocratic sexual repression between the genders, and the shaming of sexual displays, is one that few of us are going to be able to live up to, including the women. I'm afraid we can't just cherry-pick all of the good, while being able to eliminate all of the potentially awkward shit that's going to go down in an overtly sexualized society, where the standards of what is appropriate vary based on the level of attraction (something that is not always easy for a person to gauge). You aren't exactly given a rulebook with some basic orders to follow.

To a reasonable extent, we are going to have to be able to live with our imperfections, instead of defining ourselves (and others) based on them. To a point where a 50-year career of doing good for the society is buried because a man got drunk and grabbed a place which he shouldn't have, 20 or 30 years ago.

We have to always think and react in proportion.
 
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Louis CK should be forced to watch all of his accusers masturbate in front of him, one by one.

Eye for an eye, Louie.
 
I think moderation is what people need to exercise.

Yes, it is bad if a man steals a kiss from a woman, or gropes them, or whatever, but it's not worth ruining someone's decades-long career for.

The punishment needs to fit the crime. The best punishment for most of these guys is an apology and a promise to never do it again. Of course, the ones who exceeded the criminal extent (the Harvey Weinstein's, arguably) ought to be ostracized, but for the most part we are talking about misbehaviour rather than outright criminal behaviour.

The standard that is being set here, a sort of retro throwback to the theocratic sexual repression between the genders, and the shaming of sexual displays, is one that few of us are going to be able to live up to, including the women. I'm afraid we can't just cherry-pick all of the good, while being able to eliminate all of the potentially awkward shit that's going to go down in an overtly sexualized society.

To a reasonable extent, we are going to have to be able to live with our imperfections, instead of defining ourselves (and others) based on them. To a point where a 50-year career of doing good for the society is buried because a man got drunk and grabbed a place which he shouldn't have, 20 or 30 years ago.

We have to always think and react in proportion.
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You can have that if you want, because it's not central to the argument. The problem is still systemic.


What system are you referring to? The biological one that drives men to try to get laid? Or...?
 
What system are you referring to? The biological one that drives men to try to get laid? Or...?
The system of male oppression claimed by women, that allowed men to get away with so much harassment for so long, that has been steadily changing for the better during my life.
 
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