[Ryan Garcia] My levels are so low for someone who took ostarine.

[BoxingMMA]

Ryan still had an unfair advantage going into the fight. Did he not? That's cheating regardless of whether Team Haney and the commission allowed the fight to go ahead. He didn't meet his contracted weight and had to pay a hefty fine. Ryan was also penalized by the WBC. Their title wasn't at stake for him. It was only on the line for Haney to defend.

Sometimes contracts also include rehydration clauses. If a fighter is over the limit then they have to pay for it. The show almost always goes on in such cases because none of the parties involved want to cancel the headliner (they trained for 8+ weeks). It would jeopardize the entire event.

It can be an advantage and it can be unfair but when the commission accepts the fight then it stops being unfair, as Haney accepted it, it simply becomes an advantage.

But per the definition of the word “cheating” it isn’t actually cheating.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It can be an advantage and it can be unfair but when the commission accepts the fight then it stops being unfair, as Haney accepted it, it simply becomes an advantage.

But per the definition of the word “cheating” it isn’t actually cheating.

It's an unfair advantage. Haney accepted it because he took one for the team. He didn't want the fight canceled since it almost certainly would've scrapped the whole event. Everybody suffers then.

What Ryan did is analogous to being issued a speeding ticket and paying the fine attached. In the end you still broke the law, the traffic violation is on your driving record, the points count against you, and having paid the fine doesn't change the fact that you got caught breaking the speed limit.

 

[baconCrunch]

its extremely unprofessional to miss weight. completely unfair.

in the olympics, a fighter would be disqualified.

the only reason fights go on is because of the pressure/responsibility of the event.

 

[BoxingMMA]

It's an unfair advantage. Haney accepted it because he took one for the team. He didn't want the fight canceled since it almost certainly would've scrapped the whole event. Everybody suffers then.

What Ryan did is analogous to being issued a speeding ticket and paying the fine attached. In the end you still broke the law, the traffic violation is on your driving record, the points count against you, and having paid the fine doesn't change the fact that you got caught breaking the speed limit.

What Ryan did is the equivalent of telling the cops “I’m going to speed over the limit, u guys can stop me if you want” and they go “crap ok go ahead but pay us 1.5 million and we’ll let it slide”

Speeding means you’re trying to get away with something and not get caught. Ryan not making weight doesn’t have anything to do with him not getting caught as he was always going to be weighed on the scale and everybody would find out. Not making weight isn’t cheating, not making weight is lack of discipline and in many situations not even an advantage, it could be a sign of a shit camp or poorly executed dehydration routine.

People are blowing 3.2lbs out of proportion because Haney was exposed

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

What Ryan did is the equivalent of telling the cops “I’m going to speed over the limit, u guys can stop me if you want” and they go “crap ok go ahead but pay us 1.5 million and we’ll let it slide”

Speeding means you’re trying to get away with something and not get caught. Ryan not making weight doesn’t have anything to do with him not getting caught as he was always going to be weighed on the scale and everybody would find out. Not making weight isn’t cheating, not making weight is lack of discipline and in many situations not even an advantage, it could be a sign of a shit camp or poorly executed dehydration routine.

People are blowing 3.2lbs out of proportion because Haney was exposed

Ryan deliberately chose to not make weight to gain an unfair advantage. Don't get it twisted. It wasn't because his discipline is poor or a bad camp. The whole thing was likely planned out. Premeditated. Of course not having to make weight is an advantage. It's always advantageous. The fighter doesn't have to deplete themselves as much as their opponent. They'll retain their physical strength. Ryan decided he'd cheat. What he did is indefensible.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Ryan deliberately chose to not make weight to gain an unfair advantage. Don't get it twisted. It wasn't because his discipline is poor or a bad camp. The whole thing was likely planned out. Premeditated. Of course not having to make weight is an advantage. It's always advantageous. The fighter doesn't have to deplete themselves as much as their opponent. They'll retain their physical strength. Ryan decided he'd cheat. What he did is indefensible.

Again, that’s not the definition of the word cheating. You cant announce “I’m going to cheat” before a competition, it literally goes against the meaning of the term. It doesn’t matter if Haney “decided to take one for the team” he could have pulled out much like corrales did vs Castillo in the third fight. He figured he’d get knocked out again and opted out, Haney didn’t because he wanted to get paid therefore it isn’t cheating anymore of everyone accepts the new weight.

Then it only becomes an advantage, as cheating would mean the fight has to be canceled because cheating in any sport is illegal.

it’s also impossible to know why Ryan missed weight, he is a headcase.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Again, that’s not the definition of the word cheating. You cant announce “I’m going to cheat” before a competition, it literally goes against the meaning of the term. It doesn’t matter if Haney “decided to take one for the team” he could have pulled out much like corrales did vs Castillo in the third fight. He figured he’d get knocked out again and opted out, Haney didn’t because he wanted to get paid therefore it isn’t cheating anymore of everyone accepts the new weight.

Then it only becomes an advantage, as cheating would mean the fight has to be canceled because cheating in any sport is illegal.

it’s also impossible to know why Ryan missed weight, he is a headcase.

Here's the primary definition of the word "cheating" out of the Oxford dictionary. Which is exactly what he did to gain an unfair advantage. Remember, he also shook Haney's hand and assured him that he'd make the contracted weight. What he did fits the definition perfectly.

act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

Do we know that Ryan deliberately missed weight? We can be reasonably confident that it was deliberate given that he didn't even try to make weight. There were no subsequent attempts. When a fighter actually wants to make weight, after they're found to be over, you'll always see a second attempt.

“Ryan Garcia weighed 143.2 pounds Friday, 3.2 pounds over the 140-pound limit for his fight against Devin Haney, and afterward didn't attempt to lose the extraneous weight, sources told ESPN.”

Sources: Ryan Garcia misses weight, has deal to fight Haney

 

[BoxingMMA]

Here's the primary definition of the word "cheating" out of the Oxford dictionary. Which is exactly what he did to gain an unfair advantage. Remember, he also shook Haney's hand and assured him that he'd make the contracted weight. What he did fits the definition perfectly.

Do we know that Ryan deliberately missed weight? We can be reasonably confident that it was deliberate given that he didn't even try to make weight. There were no subsequent attempts. When a fighter actually wants to make weight, after they're found to be over, you'll always see a second attempt.

“Ryan Garcia weighed 143.2 pounds Friday, 3.2 pounds over the 140-pound limit for his fight against Devin Haney, and afterward didn't attempt to lose the extraneous weight, sources told ESPN.”

Sources: Ryan Garcia misses weight, has deal to fight Haney

Saying you’re going to do something then not doing it isn’t cheating. If Garcia purposefully played Haney and paid the fine, the ball was on haneys court to opt out of the fight, he didn’t, everybody knew Ryan came in heavy, fight still happened.

The only way this is cheating is if Ryan finds a way to hide his weight and nobody finds out.

Also, there’s no way to know if Ryan missed weight intentionally or not, that’s just what you think he did, just like Haney loves to blow up in rehydration to 165 like he did against prograis to gain an advantage.

You do realize Haney was likely heavier than Garcia come fight night?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Saying you’re going to do something then not doing it isn’t cheating. If Garcia purposefully played Haney and paid the fine, the ball was on haneys court to opt out of the fight, he didn’t, everybody knew Ryan came in heavy, fight still happened.

The only way this is cheating is if Ryan finds a way to hide his weight and nobody finds out.

Also, there’s no way to know if Ryan missed weight intentionally or not, that’s just what you think he did, just like Haney loves to blow up in rehydration to 165 like he did against prograis to gain an advantage.

You do realize Haney was likely heavier than Garcia come fight night?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Ryan didn't make weight meaning that he broke his contractual obligation. Nor did he even bother to correct his weight after coming in over. There was no second attempt at the scale because he did it deliberately. What Haney legally rehydrates to is irrelevant. As long as he makes weight, and he always has, it's not an issue unless the contract itself, or the commission, limits how much he can rehydrate to.

Conveniently you continue to use your own definition of "cheating" after I just posted the actual definition of the term.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Ryan didn't make weight meaning that he broke his contractual obligation. Nor did he even bother to correct his weight after coming in over. There was no second attempt at the scale because he did it deliberately. What Haney legally rehydrates to is irrelevant. As long as he makes weight, and he always has, it's not an issue unless the contract itself, or the commission, limits how much he can rehydrate to.

Conveniently you continue to use your own definition of "cheating" after I just posted the actual definition of the term.

So it's only an advantage when Ryan weighs more than Haney at the pre fight weight but it isn't an advantage for Haney to weight even more than Ryan in the actual ring because it's not on a piece of paper? Do you realize how that sounds?

Not fullfilling a contractual obligation is not and has never been cheating, because if a party does not meet what they promised then whatever was agreed to happen simply doesn't happen.

If I sign a contract to buy a red car from you in one year then after 365 days all you can procure is a green car, I am not obligated to buy it and you didn't cheat, regardless if you intentionaly got a green one because it was cheaper for you.

If at that moment I still decide I want to buy the green car because I need a car, even if I don't like it, if I agree to the new terms then those are the new terms, you are not a cheater and I cannot complain after I purchase it because it was in the contract.

Now if you told me the car was red and I would get it tomorrow, then I buy it and you dissappear and the car arrives green, now that's cheating.

There's a very big difference on what you say is cheating and you modify to suit your argument because how can Ryan have an illegal, dangerous and unfair 3lbs advantage over Haney that "could get haney killed" as they say around these parts... but when Haney rehydrates to 165 and likely heavier than all his opponents in the ring, it's all fair and isn't an advantage at all?

It's just semantics and word play.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

its extremely unprofessional to miss weight. completely unfair.

in the olympics, a fighter would be disqualified.

the only reason fights go on is because of the pressure/responsibility of the event.

Also money, don't forget that part of it

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

So it's only an advantage when Ryan weighs more than Haney at the pre fight weight but it isn't an advantage for Haney to weight even more than Ryan in the actual ring because it's not on a piece of paper? Do you realize how that sounds?

Not fullfilling a contractual obligation is not and has never been cheating, because if a party does not meet what they promised then whatever was agreed to happen simply doesn't happen.

If I sign a contract to buy a red car from you in one year then after 365 days all you can procure is a green car, I am not obligated to buy it and you didn't cheat, regardless if you intentionaly got a green one because it was cheaper for you.

If at that moment I still decide I want to buy the green car because I need a car, even if I don't like it, if I agree to the new terms then those are the new terms, you are not a cheater and I cannot complain after I purchase it because it was in the contract.

Now if you told me the car was red and I would get it tomorrow, then I buy it and you dissappear and the car arrives green, now that's cheating.

There's a very big difference on what you say is cheating and you modify to suit your argument because how can Ryan have an illegal, dangerous and unfair 3lbs advantage over Haney that "could get haney killed" as they say around these parts... but when Haney rehydrates to 165 and likely heavier than all his opponents in the ring, it's all fair and isn't an advantage at all?

It's just semantics and word play.

Purposely missing weight has always been considered a form of cheating in the fight world. Even those that don't do it deliberately still gain an unfair advantage. You keep mentioning rehydration but fighters that cut a ton have to initially deplete themselves in order to make weight before they put it back on. Cutting a lot of weight can be a double-edged sword. If you get it right it's an advantage but if you don't then it's a disadvantage. You could end up drained.

Ryan paid the financial penalty but that doesn't erase what happened. The WBC didn't offer their forgiveness. If they had then their title would've been at stake for Ryan to win. It wasn't.

 

[The Bloody Nine]

I thought we were discussing the legality of both fighters in the ring.

No. I called you on saying Margarito didn't cheat but "tried to cheat", which is factually incorrect. I never mentioned Garcia.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Purposely missing weight has always been considered a form of cheating in the fight world. Even those that don't do it deliberately still gain an unfair advantage. You keep mentioning rehydration but fighters that cut a ton have to initially deplete themselves in order to make weight before they put it back on. Cutting a lot of weight can be a double-edged sword. If you get it right it's an advantage but if you don't then it's a disadvantage. You could end up drained.

Ryan paid the financial penalty but that doesn't erase what happened. The WBC didn't offer their forgiveness. If they had then their title would've been at stake for Ryan to win. It wasn't.

There’s no way to know if Ryan missed
on purpose or not, what we can know is Haney rehydrates 100% on propuse and one could say that’s also a form of cheating within the rules. But that’s besides the point, the WBC couldn’t allow Ryan to win the belt because he missed the weight class he was fitting for, it’s logical. As we discussed, all parties involved could have pulled out, Ryan didn’t force anybody to fight him, he offered money and they took it.

There’s a simple reason why it isn’t cheating… cheating is illegal in every sport and when something is illegal, the competition can’t move forward. Missing weight isn’t cheating and one cannot prove Ryan did it on purpose, but even if he did, nobody forced Haney to fight, because 3lbs ain’t shit compared to what he usually rehydrates to.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

There’s no way to know if Ryan missed
on purpose or not, what we can know is Haney rehydrates 100% on propuse and one could say that’s also a form of cheating within the rules. But that’s besides the point, the WBC couldn’t allow Ryan to win the belt because he missed the weight class he was fitting for, it’s logical. As we discussed, all parties involved could have pulled out, Ryan didn’t force anybody to fight him, he offered money and they took it.

There’s a simple reason why it isn’t cheating… cheating is illegal in every sport and when something is illegal, the competition can’t move forward. Missing weight isn’t cheating and one cannot prove Ryan did it on purpose, but even if he did, nobody forced Haney to fight, because 3lbs ain’t shit compared to what he usually rehydrates to.

Missing weight by over 3 pounds is a lot. Especially for the little guys that are only 140 lbs. I don't know where you get this stuff from. Cheating doesn't always cancel a fight. Ryan also cheated during the fight when he sucker punched Haney. Was he DQ'd? No, but it did cost him a point. Feel free to give Ryan a pass for deliberately missing weight and doping. Objective fans won't.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Missing weight by over 3 pounds is a lot. Especially for the little guys that are only 140 lbs. I don't know where you get this stuff from. Cheating doesn't always cancel a fight. Ryan also cheated during the fight when he sucker punched Haney. Was he DQ'd? No, but it did cost him a point. Feel free to give Ryan a pass for deliberately missing weight and doping. Objective fans won't.

There’s a difference between doing something while in the actual fight, the ref has the final say, mills lane let Mike Tyson get away with the first bite, didn’t DQ until the second, we are talking about things that happen before the day of the fight when every one has the chance to cancel yet they choose not to

3 lbs is not a lot, Haney has gone up to 165 on fight day.

So if there was the possibility to drug test fighters and get instant results at the time of weight in for all the world to see and Ryan is proven to have taken all sorts of roids. Do you believe the fight still happens?

The answer is obvious but I wait to hear you try and spin this

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

There’s a difference between doing something while in the actual fight, the ref has the final say, mills lane let Mike Tyson get away with the first bite, didn’t DQ until the second, we are talking about things that happen before the day of the fight when every one has the chance to cancel yet they choose not to

3 lbs is not a lot, Haney has gone up to 165 on fight day.

So if there was the possibility to drug test fighters and get instant results at the time of weight in for all the world to see and Ryan is proven to have taken all sorts of roids. Do you believe the fight still happens?

The answer is obvious but I wait to hear you try and spin this

Are you seriously this daft? Ask any professional fighter if missing weight by over 3 lbs is a lot. Be sure to copy & paste their response. And stop comparing missing weight to legal rehydration. If you don't understand the difference then there's simply no point in continuing this debate.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Are you seriously this daft? Ask any professional fighter if missing weight by over 3 lbs is a lot. Be sure to copy & paste their response. And stop comparing missing weight to legal rehydration. If you don't understand the difference then there's simply no point in continuing this debate.

Garcia gets tested positive for all the roids before the fight starts, he says he is willing to pay Haney 3 million if they let him fight anyways. Haney is willing to “take one for the team”

Does the fight still happen?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Garcia gets tested positive for all the roids before the fight starts, he says he is willing to pay Haney 3 million if they let him fight anyways. Haney is willing to “take one for the team”

Does the fight still happen?

Has a fight ever been canceled because a fighter missed weight?

Has a fighter ever been banned by the commission for missing weight?

Has a fighter ever lost a world title over missing weight?

The answer to all of these questions is a resounding yes. It's honestly sad that you're defending a guy that chose to not make weight in order to gain an unfair advantage while doping.

 

[Sasha]

Honey, you’d be an angel if you went to the pharmacy and got me some (2S)-3-(4-cyanophenoxy)-N-[4-cyano-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide. It’s really important, gotta go, bye.