Crime River Visitor Found Guilty of reckless homicide After Drunk Teenagers Harassed Him

[Poon Goon]

That's irrelevant because by the time the attacks started, that was long over and he was not being threatening then.

This isn’t a video game where the person that got grabbed forgets that anything happened a few moments later. If someone puts their hands on me I’m going to consider them a threat until the situation is completely resolved since they’ve already shown a propensity for getting physical.

 

[Blayt7hh]

ITT we have learned that you can attack someone, get mildly assaulted back and then commit murder in self defense after you were given the chance to leave.

SMH. None of you are stupid enough to believe that. You just think those kids deserved it because you don’t like them.

 

[nhbbear]

Yes I said bias because why else would you make up shit like a 52 year old guy being "elderly"? It's just not true so obviously you have some reason to embellish things to make this guy seem innocent.


Yet this very case shows that the "quiet" guy was actually more dangerous.


He wasn't grabbing the guy/tube out of love or jokes. It was an aggressive and physical act. Which means he's the one that started the physical confrontation.


I agree that they were shitheads, but so was this guy and he took things to the most extreme level. I don't feel sorry that he's going to jail.

Still hammering away at the elderly comment and that vicious, terrifying tube grab?

In no instance can I see the guy being charged with a crime-any crime, just based on the tube grab-especially after taking in all the information.

He didn’t physically harm anyone, didn’t try to, and he barely makes contact with anyone-he grabs the damn tube. Like I said, if it touched off right then and there, it would be directly related to his actions. But several mins go by and they are still shouting that he is a pedo and said he was looking for little girls-to the extent that other people got involved and they thought it was the funniest thing ever.

It was an odd thing that he did, but they weren’t in fear for their safety-which is a major factor in any assault charges-domestic or simple. It does not fit the definition of battery because he seemingly had no intent to commit harm nor did his actions lead to harm or the capability of harm. Maybe they bust a gut from laughing at him before he actually busted their guts.

And let’s say that you’re right. He made the first physical move. He grabbed their inner tube. So they knock him down repeatedly, strike him while he is laying in the water, he gets up and they strike and shove him down again and again. It’s not proportional to the threat he posed to them. Now, when he uses a knife in self defense? I can argue all day why their actions amounted to a deadly force attack and why using deadly force to combat deadly force is appropriate.

And yes, both sides are/were shitheads. We agree on that, so there’s one thing we agree on.

 

[nhbbear]

This isn’t a video game where the person that got grabbed forgets that anything happened a few moments later. If someone puts their hands on me I’m going to consider them a threat until the situation is completely resolved since they’ve already shown a propensity for getting physical.

Yeah, they’re so terrified by his actions that they continue to harass him, get other people to harass him, and viciously attack him all while laughing and shouting about the culture comment-signaling their intent to attack. They swarmed over him and it was hilarious until homeboy bled out in the water and the others were stumbling around trying to hold their guts in.

 

[Poon Goon]

Still hammering away at the elderly comment and that vicious, terrifying tube grab?

I was responding to you calling me "woke" for commenting on you calling a 52 year old guy elderly.

He didn’t physically harm anyone, didn’t try to, and he barely makes contact with anyone-he grabs the damn tube. Like I said, if it touched off right then and there, it would be directly related to his actions. But several mins go by and they are still shouting that he is a pedo and said he was looking for little girls-to the extent that other people got involved and they thought it was the funniest thing ever.

It was an odd thing that he did, but they weren’t in fear for their safety-which is a major factor in any assault charges-domestic or simple. It does not fit the definition of battery because he seemingly had no intent to commit harm nor did his actions lead to harm or the capability of harm. Maybe they bust a gut from laughing at him before he actually busted their guts.

And let’s say that you’re right. He made the first physical move. He grabbed their inner tube. So they knock him down repeatedly, strike him while he is laying in the water, he gets up and they strike and shove him down again and again. It’s not proportional to the threat he posed to them. Now, when he uses a knife in self defense? I can argue all day why their actions amounted to a deadly force attack and why using deadly force to combat deadly force is appropriate.

Yes they were making fun of him and acting like dickheads. Then the guy you claim is elderly actually ran at the guy on the tube and started grabbing at him. It was clearly not done in jest, it was an aggressive act.

You say that "several minutes" elapsed between him initiating contact and the continued yelling. The video in the OP is only 3 minutes long and the first stabbing happens at 1:57. Is that an edited version of a longer video? If not, then I'd say that the two are directly related.

 

[nhbbear]

I was responding to you calling me "woke" for commenting on you calling a 52 year old guy elderly.


Yes they were making fun of him and acting like dickheads. Then the guy you claim is elderly actually ran at the guy on the tube and started grabbing at him. It was clearly not done in jest, it was an aggressive act.

You say that "several minutes" elapsed between him initiating contact and the continued yelling. The video in the OP is only 3 minutes long and the first stabbing happens at 1:57. Is that an edited version of a longer video? If not, then I'd say that the two are directly related.

Aggressive? No. It was a fumbling attempt at best. Either way, two minutes later, it is NOT justication for the attack on him.

As you said earlier, if I am dealing with him, I am taking note of his behavior and probably thinking this guy is mentally unsound. Do I keep this in mind at all times? Yes. Do I use that information to make me think it is ok and justified to go 5-1 and to keep knocking him down and hitting him while he is down No. That is something you save for someone swinging on you, someone that keeps on coming. This guy showed no ounce of aggression towards the boys for those two mins after he grabs the tube in that bizarre display.

Those kids meant this guy harm, physically and emotionally. They fucking sought assistance in beating him down by saying he claimed to be looking for little girls. They wanted to see him get his ass kicked for their own amusement. They were looking for either someone else to do it or for the excuse themselves. We won’t ever know if the excuse they claimed he gave them actually happened. They lied on the stand multiple times. They lied on scene multiple times.

Am I certain that he would have died or been seriously harmed had he not used a knife to defend himself? No.

No one can be sure either way. But in that moment-in his mind set, you would have to think “is this going to stop/how bad is this going to be/when will they stop hitting me/am I going to die/how long before the rest of them jump in/is my heart ok.” And his mindset is all that matters. In that moment where he thinks his life is legit in danger, is he justified to use force equal to or greater than what those boys are delivering? I believe it is. I believe he knew he could lose consciousness. I believe he knew that if they wanted to, they could keep ganging up on him and he had no chance to prevail -that he was at their mercy.

There are those itt that are suggesting that he should just take his lumps and learn from the experience. While he could have handled things much better, these boys were the ones needing to learn some things. Not to pick on someone and gang up on them, that your pleasure is not more important than someone else’s pain and suffering, that cruelty is sometimes met with force. And they all learned a valuable and painful lesson that day. Some of them have permanent physical scars to remind them. They all have mental trauma from watching their friend bleed out and wondering if the others were going to die. They went from laughing to screaming and crying in the blink of an eye.

Again, I assert that the state did not prove its case that he a. Meant to kill these boys b. Was unjust in his actions c. Was not justified to defend himself d. that he was not really in grave danger. Even the last one is undeniable. He was in grave danger and to admit that is to inject reasonable doubt into the situation. If he is in grave danger, then he is justified in defending his life at all costs-a right afforded everyone in this country. Can you say that his life was absolutely not at risk? Can you say he had no right to defend himself? And before you do, put yourself in his situation. You are surrounded, outnumbered by a huge margin, and they keep knocking you down. Are you going to simply take it and stay down hoping they stop or are you going to try to fight back, and if so, to what end. I assume you are reasonably fit and younger than 52. I assume you have some idea how to throw a punch and defend yourself and could probably knock back at least 1-2 of those kids. Now imagine you are much weaker, tired and out of breath, adrenaline pumping, know that you can’t win a fight against these boys with your fists, know that any punch could be one too many-that you could be knocked out and helpless lying in the water-hoping someone will save you even though to them, you are hunting little girls. Dont even try to tell me that you wouldn’t fight back. And while you or I could hold our own and hold a few back, eventually the numbers will get us. How do you make them stop? You use any tool at your disposal to end the threat, and in this case-in this case, it was a knife since you know if you try and punch five boys, you are going to lose.

 

[Poon Goon]

Aggressive? No. It was a fumbling attempt at best. Either way, two minutes later, it is NOT justication for the attack on him.

As you said earlier, if I am dealing with him, I am taking note of his behavior and probably thinking this guy is mentally unsound. Do I keep this in mind at all times? Yes. Do I use that information to make me think it is ok and justified to go 5-1 and to keep knocking him down and hitting him while he is down No. That is something you save for someone swinging on you, someone that keeps on coming. This guy showed no ounce of aggression towards the boys for those two mins after he grabs the tube in that bizarre display.

Those kids meant this guy harm, physically and emotionally. They fucking sought assistance in beating him down by saying he claimed to be looking for little girls. They wanted to see him get his ass kicked for their own amusement. They were looking for either someone else to do it or for the excuse themselves. We won’t ever know if the excuse they claimed he gave them actually happened. They lied on the stand multiple times. They lied on scene multiple times.

Am I certain that he would have died or been seriously harmed had he not used a knife to defend himself? No.

No one can be sure either way. But in that moment-in his mind set, you would have to think “is this going to stop/how bad is this going to be/when will they stop hitting me/am I going to die/how long before the rest of them jump in/is my heart ok.” And his mindset is all that matters. In that moment where he thinks his life is legit in danger, is he justified to use force equal to or greater than what those boys are delivering? I believe it is. I believe he knew he could lose consciousness. I believe he knew that if they wanted to, they could keep ganging up on him and he had no chance to prevail -that he was at their mercy.

There are those itt that are suggesting that he should just take his lumps and learn from the experience. While he could have handled things much better, these boys were the ones needing to learn some things. Not to pick on someone and gang up on them, that your pleasure is not more important than someone else’s pain and suffering, that cruelty is sometimes met with force. And they all learned a valuable and painful lesson that day. Some of them have permanent physical scars to remind them. They all have mental trauma from watching their friend bleed out and wondering if the others were going to die. They went from laughing to screaming and crying in the blink of an eye.

Again, I assert that the state did not prove its case that he a. Meant to kill these boys b. Was unjust in his actions c. Was not justified to defend himself d. that he was not really in grave danger. Even the last one is undeniable. He was in grave danger and to admit that is to inject reasonable doubt into the situation. If he is in grave danger, then he is justified in defending his life at all costs-a right afforded everyone in this country. Can you say that his life was absolutely not at risk? Can you say he had no right to defend himself? And before you do, put yourself in his situation. You are surrounded, outnumbered by a huge margin, and they keep knocking you down. Are you going to simply take it and stay down hoping they stop or are you going to try to fight back, and if so, to what end. I assume you are reasonably fit and younger than 52. I assume you have some idea how to throw a punch and defend yourself and could probably knock back at least 1-2 of those kids. Now imagine you are much weaker, tired and out of breath, adrenaline pumping, know that you can’t win a fight against these boys with your fists, know that any punch could be one too many-that you could be knocked out and helpless lying in the water-hoping someone will save you even though to them, you are hunting little girls. Dont even try to tell me that you wouldn’t fight back. And while you or I could hold our own and hold a few back, eventually the numbers will get us. How do you make them stop? You use any tool at your disposal to end the threat, and in this case-in this case, it was a knife since you know if you try and punch five boys, you are going to lose.

Listen, it's clear we won't sway the other's opinion on this and we've both said mean things. You shouldn't have called me woke and I shouldn't have told you to go suck a boner. He gets sentenced in July so at that time we will get to see what the judge who heard all of the evidence thinks.

 

[Poon Goon]

I assume you are reasonably fit and younger than 52

I'm JACKED/YOKED

 

[Lucas1980]

You just think those kids deserved it because you don’t like them.

No........and believing someone acted in self defense which can be easily argued for doesn't make someone "stupid"....making assumptions about others intentions does though.

 

[Blayt7hh]

While he could have handled things much better, these boys were the ones needing to learn some things.

Yes he could have handled it much better and as an adult should have.

The second half of your quote, “these boys were the ones needing to learn some things” is why you and other posters think this was justified. Well guess what, teaching kids a lesson with a knife is not covered in any definition of self defense that I am aware of.

 

[lifelessheap]

"When you do something you know you usually wouldn't have done and are doing it purely for the "hype" factor of going against your usual judgement to instead try something new and different. Though this may or may not benefit in your favour. Oh well it was for the culture."



"For the Culture!"

They were drunk. They knew they were hurting and harassing a confused man. Someone put their hands on his neck and choked him in the water. People freak out in water. Ganging up on him was stupid. They never once deescalated. Only escalated.

"For the Culture!"

 

[nhbbear]

Yes he could have handled it much better and as an adult should have.

The second half of your quote, “these boys were the ones needing to learn some things” is why you and other posters think this was justified. Well guess what, teaching kids a lesson with a knife is not covered in any definition of self defense that I am aware of.

What did I say that was inaccurate? Did they need to learn the things I listed, or were they behaving accordingly?

 

[nhbbear]

Listen, it's clear we won't sway the other's opinion on this and we've both said mean things. You shouldn't have called me woke and I shouldn't have told you to go suck a boner. He gets sentenced in July so at that time we will get to see what the judge who heard all of the evidence thinks.

Wait, you told me to suck a boner? I must have missed that. You dirty fuck. I prefer to suck limp dicks. And fair enough, we will see and I agree, we are not going to change each others minds. I don’t like this guy and I feel bad for the kids, but I fundamentally believe in the right to self defense and kids gang mobbing people has become too common and every once in a while, they get reminded that this is a bad idea.

 

[nhbbear]

ITT we have learned that you can attack someone, get mildly assaulted back and then commit murder in self defense after you were given the chance to leave.

SMH. None of you are stupid enough to believe that. You just think those kids deserved it because you don’t like them.

lol. “ATTACK SOMEONE(ie grabbing an inner tube in some awkward action is not an attack) AND GET MILDLY ASSAULTED BACK(mildly? lol they repeatedly knocked him down and struck him while he was down, in the water, with a bum ticker-this was absolutely a life threatening situation and way more aggressive and serious than his fumbling attempt at grabbing the tube that last a second). And so generous of them to “give him the chance to leave.” Why, thank you m’lords. They had every opportunity to leave as well, but that’s not as much fun as surrounding a man you are teasing while getting others into the fray by falsely claiming he is there to look for little girls

 

[Hog-train]

Yes he could have handled it much better and as an adult should have.

The second half of your quote, “these boys were the ones needing to learn some things” is why you and other posters think this was justified. Well guess what, teaching kids a lesson with a knife is not covered in any definition of self defense that I am aware of.

They're not all boys. Only 1 kid stabbed was 17. The rest were 18-25. Those are adults.

The women that came up and interjected was like 24-25.

 

[blaseblase]

Lot of future murderers in this thread. Pro tip: don't harrass a bunch of kids and definitely don't put your hands on them. This guy was the aggressor and the law rightfully treated him as such. Yet another instance of people not understanding how self defense works and basing their opinion on their pre-conceived bias.

 

[nhbbear]

Lot of future murderers in this thread. Pro tip: don't harrass a bunch of kids and definitely don't put your hands on them. This guy was the aggressor and the law rightfully treated him as such. Yet another instance of people not understanding how self defense works and basing their opinion on their pre-conceived bias.

Really? You obviously did not follow or review the testimony of the boys or witnesses. They harassed the shit out of him for several minutes before the video started. Under cross examination, one of the boys admitted that the man never said anything to them. Not one word-yet according to the cheerful screams “he said he’s looking for little girls.” That same boy then said that “if he had said something, even a word or two, it might have cleared the situation up.”

Yeah, he grabbed their inner tube in an awkward interaction, but it lasted one second and then he was looking for his goggles as they all stood around and laughed and got other people to come over, again claiming that he said he was looking for little girls, which prompted the loud mouth woman to get in his face. Guess who got rid of all her social media and has gone silent because she knows she threatened a man that was innocent of pedophilia based upon the lying boys cackling and joyful declarations.

He just stood there and awkwardly smiled and nodded as he was shouted at until they brutally attacked him, knocking him to the ground, hitting him as he lay in the water-5 on 1 until he ended the attack using a knife.

Future murderers? Yeah, ok.

And I completely understand how self defense works. His life was in put into jeopardy by their repeated attacks and he defended himself with the only manner in which he could. He was much older and weaker than the 5 boys/men that attacked him one after the other. He has a bad heart and was in water. No one was trying to stop them and they laughed the entire time. With his ailing heart, age, being outnumbered and attacked, being in water where he could drown if knocked out or held down. He didn’t know if they would stop hitting or shoving him into the water, he didn’t know if he would have a heart attack, he didn’t know if even more than five would jump in(this is an alleged pedo after all), and all these thoughts are likely racing through his head as he is being hit in the face, kicked, shoved down over and over.

The only time he stabbed anyone was when they made contact with him to hit or shove him and only the people that were actively attacking him. They would come in to shove him or hit him and he flicked that blade out. According to one source, he held the knife out and some of them actually ran into it as they charged him, so basically, they technically stabbed themselves.

From what I saw of police interviews, I don’t like this guy. He is shady af and a liar. But I hold the right to self defense very high. When being
Violently attacked by multiple attackers, a person should be able to defend themselves with what they have at hand-be it a knife, gun, bottle, stick, whatever. Kids and young adults think they can jump someone with superior numbers and beat them to a pulp with no consequences-and this was after calling him a pedo for several mins and getting other people after him. These kids could have easily killed him and without the knife, he wouldn’t have been able to defend himself. He can’t go hands on or fist to fist against five young men. Once attacked, what are his options? Shut up and take it and hope they stop or his heart doesn’t give out? Or fight back? Outrun them when they won’t even let him stand up? I would always choose to fight back.

 

[Blayt7hh]

What did I say that was inaccurate? Did they need to learn the things I listed, or were they behaving accordingly?

You’ve said plenty that was inaccurate and I’m not inclined to keep repeating myself. I was just pulling that quote out because you let slip the real reason you think this was fine, and it has nothing to do with self defense

 

[blaseblase]

Really? You obviously did not follow or review the testimony of the boys or witnesses. They harassed the shit out of him for several minutes before the video started. Under cross examination, one of the boys admitted that the man never said anything to them. Not one word-yet according to the cheerful screams “he said he’s looking for little girls.” That same boy then said that “if he had said something, even a word or two, it might have cleared the situation up.”

Yeah, he grabbed their inner tube in an awkward interaction, but it lasted one second and then he was looking for his goggles as they all stood around and laughed and got other people to come over, again claiming that he said he was looking for little girls, which prompted the loud mouth woman to get in his face. Guess who got rid of all her social media and has gone silent because she knows she threatened a man that was innocent of pedophilia based upon the lying boys cackling and joyful declarations.

He just stood there and awkwardly smiled and nodded as he was shouted at until they brutally attacked him, knocking him to the ground, hitting him as he lay in the water-5 on 1 until he ended the attack using a knife.

Future murderers? Yeah, ok.

And I completely understand how self defense works. His life was in put into jeopardy by their repeated attacks and he defended himself with the only manner in which he could. He was much older and weaker than the 5 boys/men that attacked him one after the other. He has a bad heart and was in water. No one was trying to stop them and they laughed the entire time. With his ailing heart, age, being outnumbered and attacked, being in water where he could drown if knocked out or held down. He didn’t know if they would stop hitting or shoving him into the water, he didn’t know if he would have a heart attack, he didn’t know if even more than five would jump in(this is an alleged pedo after all), and all these thoughts are likely racing through his head as he is being hit in the face, kicked, shoved down over and over.

The only time he stabbed anyone was when they made contact with him to hit or shove him and only the people that were actively attacking him. They would come in to shove him or hit him and he flicked that blade out. According to one source, he held the knife out and some of them actually ran into it as they charged him, so basically, they technically stabbed themselves.

From what I saw of police interviews, I don’t like this guy. He is shady af and a liar. But I hold the right to self defense very high. When being
Violently attacked by multiple attackers, a person should be able to defend themselves with what they have at hand-be it a knife, gun, bottle, stick, whatever. Kids and young adults think they can jump someone with superior numbers and beat them to a pulp with no consequences-and this was after calling him a pedo for several mins and getting other people after him. These kids could have easily killed him and without the knife, he wouldn’t have been able to defend himself. He can’t go hands on or fist to fist against five young men. Once attacked, what are his options? Shut up and take it and hope they stop or his heart doesn’t give out? Or fight back? Outrun them when they won’t even let him stand up? I would always choose to fight back.

You're a psychopath. Miu started and escalated the situation. He approached the kids. He was told to leave. He was the first to put hands on someone. He was the first to throw a punch. At any point he could have left. He chose violence. Learn what self defense is.

"Five young men." Like it was a gang or something. Half these people didn't even know each other.

 

[nhbbear]

You’ve said plenty that was inaccurate and I’m not inclined to keep repeating myself. I was just pulling that quote out because you let slip the real reason you think this was fine, and it has nothing to do with self defense

Refresh me. What is the real reason I think this is fine?