Real Source of Middle Eastern extremism: the United State (best PBS doc in a long time)

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Trotsky, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,614
    Likes Received:
    5,402
    One time someone in Bangladesh for diarrhea. It was the us fault for creating lays potato chips.


    Iran has the shah around then. Did we oust him and let the twatollah take over? Should we have invaded and backed him?
     
  2. Trotsky

    Trotsky Social Capitalist / Capitalistic Communist

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    11,736
    Likes Received:
    27,230
    We ousted the secular leader before the reinstatement of the Shah.

    Don't post in threads if you can't even been bothered to read the OP.
     
  3. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,614
    Likes Received:
    5,402
    You think liking Iran makes you edgy. It doesn’t. They’re as unacceptable of a society as the rest of the Middle East. We should have nothing to do with them if possible, but we can’t do that becaus do the global oil economy. They aren’t your friend. You don’t know these people. Just because you know a guy or had a falafel once doesn’t make you an expert. Hang in there. Either them or one of their neighbors will be showing exactly what type of people they are again soon enough.
     
  4. Trotsky

    Trotsky Social Capitalist / Capitalistic Communist

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    11,736
    Likes Received:
    27,230
    The Iranian people are much more my friends than any ethnocentric, racist fuckwit reductionist like you.
     
  5. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,614
    Likes Received:
    5,402
    You’ll see. THey aren’t your friends.
     
  6. Fronk

    Fronk Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,255
    Likes Received:
    867
    Location:
    Socialist heaven Sweden
    You are truly a disgusting person.
     
  7. Gregolian

    Gregolian .45 ACP Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    46,013
    Likes Received:
    19,423
    Location:
    Gun Shop
    Let me know when you watch that two part vid @Trotsky
     
  8. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,614
    Likes Received:
    5,402
    Spend a few months in the gulf and get back to me. Or read up on these people and what they currently do to their own people. They aren’t your friend. They don’t want peace. Does that mean every Iranian? No. The entire power structure there though. All of it.
     
  9. PEDS Help me Post

    PEDS Help me Post Black Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,066
    Likes Received:
    14,170
    That is the undesired effect of sanctions on a country. When they can no longer import or trade for things they are forced to adapt and fill the void themselves, which makes them stronger in the end (if done effectively, which Iran seems to be doing).
     
  10. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun Three Tailed Pasha

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    26,928
    Likes Received:
    21,469
    Location:
    Democratic People's Islamic Republic of Kekistan
    I meant the neo-Ottomans(Erdogan's Turkey) and neo-Safavids(Islamic Republic). In terms of the actual gunpowder empires I'm team Ottoman all the way.

    Shah Ismail seems like a more interesting guy than Suleiman though, apparently he was a passionate poet in multiple languages while Suleiman let a fucking thot wrap him around her finger.
     
    tramendous likes this.
  11. tramendous

    tramendous Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    8,914
    Likes Received:
    8,738
    Location:
    JustBleedistan
    I think Suleiman's story is far more Shakespearean and poetic though. His acts of mercy coming to bite him in the ass like letting the knights go after the fall of rhodes. His act of choosing to marry a slave for love and then like you said, she ends up getting his son and best friend killed. he builds up the most powerful empire around and goes down as a law giver but leaves it in the hands of an idiot. Both his successes and fuck ups trump Shah Ismail (although admittedly i dont know much about him)
     
    Kafir-kun likes this.
  12. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun Three Tailed Pasha

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    26,928
    Likes Received:
    21,469
    Location:
    Democratic People's Islamic Republic of Kekistan
    He was a great man but I firmly believe in bros before hoes and his killing Ibrahim and infatuation with Hurrem always made me think less of him. Its often justified on the basis that Ibrahim was becoming power hungry but I don't believe that, seems like Grand Viziers are common fall guys and I think that was the case there.

    I watched Aladdin recently because I was craving some Orientalist aesthetic and I was reminded of poor Ibrahim when they introduced Jafar as the Grand Vizier. The fact that a movie made in the 90s was basically propagating the same medieval Sultanic ideology of blaming the Vizier for the Sultan's incompetence and malice really bothered me for no good reason.
     
    tramendous likes this.
  13. tramendous

    tramendous Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    8,914
    Likes Received:
    8,738
    Location:
    JustBleedistan
    Cant do "bros over hoes" if she is the mother of your children and he was the son of Selim who killed viziers every tuesday.

    Is normal.

    but ya he was losing it towards the end.

    I still have him and Mehmet at the top of the GOAT Ottoman sultan list. I think Bayezid I and Mustafa were the great "what ifs".
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    Kafir-kun likes this.
  14. m25105

    m25105 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,431
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    Location:
    Denmark
    You two should watch turkish soap operas to get your ottoman fix :p
     
  15. Son of Jamin

    Son of Jamin Make MMA Great Again

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10,269
    Likes Received:
    16,180
    Location:
    Wadiya
    Indeed, and after the Grand Mosque seizure in 1979. The house of Saud thought it would be wise to spread wahabism globally so the religious zealots would focus on foreign affairs rather than meddling with domestic politics in Saudi Arabia.
     
    Fronk likes this.
  16. Fronk

    Fronk Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,255
    Likes Received:
    867
    Location:
    Socialist heaven Sweden
    Yes, the Grand Mosque seizure was certainly another turning point in Saudi policy. It's just that regional factors outside of the Iranian revolution facilitated the great success that was the spread of Wahabism. You have to give the Saudis credit; they basically changed Sunni Islam to its core.

    I agree with one of the main points here though. The Saudis have certainly lost control of the beast they created. Groups like ISIS view the house of Saud as the devil. There is no doubt about it. But it's clear that Wahabism and the spread of salafism in general did promote aggressive takfirism and violent jihadism. The result of that is ISIS. The problematic part is that the Sauds still view these groups as geopolitical tools even if it may come back and hit them. Read the old leaked US state departments leaks about Syria back from 2012. It made it clear that the creation of a "Salafist principality" in eastern Syria was the preferable outcome for regional allies(and in extent the US). It's damning.
     
    Son of Jamin likes this.

Share This Page