Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria(Kurds Reach Afrin Deal with Syrian Government Forces)
- Thread starter HomerThompson
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2005
- Messages
- 41,443
- Reaction score
- 0
OP updated with links to developments.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 28,702
- Reaction score
- 11,334
I think you might be on to something with the sticky
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2005
- Messages
- 41,443
- Reaction score
- 0
Russia is going to go to the UN and demand a halt to Turkey's operation in Syria.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ration-ria-citing-lawmaker-idUSKBN1F90S1?il=0
But, they also moved their forces out of the area. Thereby, allowing Turkey to move forward with operations.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...from-syrias-afrin-interfax-idUSKBN1F90RW?il=0
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ration-ria-citing-lawmaker-idUSKBN1F90S1?il=0
But, they also moved their forces out of the area. Thereby, allowing Turkey to move forward with operations.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...from-syrias-afrin-interfax-idUSKBN1F90RW?il=0
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2010
- Messages
- 4,042
- Reaction score
- 388
Russia is going to go to the UN and demand a halt to Turkey's operation in Syria.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ration-ria-citing-lawmaker-idUSKBN1F90S1?il=0
But, they also moved their forces out of the area. Thereby, allowing Turkey to move forward with operations.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...from-syrias-afrin-interfax-idUSKBN1F90RW?il=0
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2010
- Messages
- 4,042
- Reaction score
- 388
So it looks like Turkey are heavily striking YPG/Kurdish forces in Afrin right now. There might even be a ground assault.
Afrin has always been a special case, being seperated from the rest of Kurdish land and never involved in fighting ISIS. The different cantons have always had their seperate politics, Afrin being the closest ones to the goverment and Russia. US never stationed troops there.
Going by US statements it looks like Afrin is being sacrificed to please Turkey. It's going to be interesting to see what consequenses this will have, the rest of YPG won't sit idly by. The US have painted themselves into a corner again trying to "counteract Iran" to please Saudis and Israelis. Trying to find a way to justify their, what is now basically an occuption, of NE Syria backfired hard.
Declaring that they would build a 30k strong "border guard" made up of Turkeys arch-enemies was hilariously inept.
Afrin has always been a special case, being seperated from the rest of Kurdish land and never involved in fighting ISIS. The different cantons have always had their seperate politics, Afrin being the closest ones to the goverment and Russia. US never stationed troops there.
Going by US statements it looks like Afrin is being sacrificed to please Turkey. It's going to be interesting to see what consequenses this will have, the rest of YPG won't sit idly by. The US have painted themselves into a corner again trying to "counteract Iran" to please Saudis and Israelis. Trying to find a way to justify their, what is now basically an occuption, of NE Syria backfired hard.
Declaring that they would build a 30k strong "border guard" made up of Turkeys arch-enemies was hilariously inept.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 28,702
- Reaction score
- 11,334
Sorry but there isn't anything funny about it at all
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 28,702
- Reaction score
- 11,334
Usually I can do some reading and come up with a pretty sound opinion on what I think should happen but this is such a shitshow it's not clear at all to me what the best way forward is and I have little confidence that Trump and his team are up to the challenge of figuring it out.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2010
- Messages
- 4,042
- Reaction score
- 388
It might not be funny but it really is absurd.
A NATO member and ally of the US, flying US made planes, are currently bombing another ally of the US, partners in the war against ISIS, in Syria.
I must say I'm surprised by the way Erdogan called the US bluff. American support for Kurdish statehood was, once again, just skin-deep. Just look at what went down in Iraq and the non-existant reaction from the US when Iraqi troops crushed their latest attempt at independence. Now they are put on the spot in Syria, and by the looks of it US support doesn't surpass just verbal assurances there either.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2005
- Messages
- 41,443
- Reaction score
- 0
It's disgusting. I loathe our foreign policy.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
- Messages
- 3,732
- Reaction score
- 0
Turkey launches airstrikes in Syria against U.S.-backed Kurdish fighters.
Link Source 1 (Washington Post) : https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...3614530bd87_story.html?utm_term=.dbdf6281c4c2
‘After Afrin, Americans feel threatened by Turkey’s vow to strike US-backed Kurds in Manbij’
Link Source 2 (Reuters) : https://www.rt.com/usa/416520-us-manbij-threatened-turkey-offensive/
Syria: Turkey war planes launch strikes on Afrin
Link Source 3 (BBC News) : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42759944
Link Source 1 (Washington Post) : https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...3614530bd87_story.html?utm_term=.dbdf6281c4c2
‘After Afrin, Americans feel threatened by Turkey’s vow to strike US-backed Kurds in Manbij’
Link Source 2 (Reuters) : https://www.rt.com/usa/416520-us-manbij-threatened-turkey-offensive/
Syria: Turkey war planes launch strikes on Afrin
Link Source 3 (BBC News) : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42759944
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
- Messages
- 3,732
- Reaction score
- 0
Here's another bone for shits and giggles.
Erdogan: Operation in Syria's Afrin has begun
Al Jazeera News : http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/01/erdogan-operation-syria-afrin-begun-180120120424928.html
Erdogan: Operation in Syria's Afrin has begun
Al Jazeera News : http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/01/erdogan-operation-syria-afrin-begun-180120120424928.html
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2015
- Messages
- 4,606
- Reaction score
- 10,858
Any sources with these kind of messages?
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
- Messages
- 3,732
- Reaction score
- 0
'We will tear them down': Turkey launches attack on US-backed Kurds in northern Syria (ugh reading this title coming from Tayyip Erdogan just really pisses me off. Seriously at this point, fuck Turkey)
Link Source (abc news) : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-21/turkey-launches-attack-on-afrin-kurds/9346626
Local media quoted Turkey's military officials as saying warplanes had so far struck 108 out of a total of 113 Syrian Kurdish militia targets in the Afrin region, including a military airport.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2005
- Messages
- 41,443
- Reaction score
- 0
FSA is joining the Turkish troops:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ack-turkish-force-in-syria-idUSKBN1FA0OK?il=0
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ack-turkish-force-in-syria-idUSKBN1FA0OK?il=0
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2015
- Messages
- 9,510
- Reaction score
- 4,927
So what does the West do about the Kurds and establishing of a Kurdish state whom they've supported throughout.
They would've been pro-West but surrounded by hostile neighbours who wouldn't acknowledge them.
Does the West continue to support them or abandon them?
I think it's the latter. They don't want to distant Iraq and Turkey. Iran and Russia would get involved as well.
They would've been pro-West but surrounded by hostile neighbours who wouldn't acknowledge them.
Does the West continue to support them or abandon them?
I think it's the latter. They don't want to distant Iraq and Turkey. Iran and Russia would get involved as well.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2005
- Messages
- 41,443
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
- Messages
- 3,732
- Reaction score
- 0
Now its fucking real. I hope to God the Kurds make this a downright bloody affair. Fuck the turks, may their blood run deep into the soil of northern Syria.
Syria: Turkish ground troops enter Afrin enclave
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42765697
Turkish ground troops have crossed into northern Syria, with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan vowing to crush Kurdish fighters "very quickly".
The Kurdish YPG militia says it has repelled Turkish troops in Afrin, and is shelling Turkish border areas.
Turkey considers the YPG a terrorist group, but it forms a crucial part of a US-backed alliance battling Islamic State (IS) jihadists in Syria.
The US has urged Turkish "restraint" in order to avoid civilian casualties.
What is happening in Afrin?
It is the second day of Turkey's military operation "Olive Branch".
Turkish troops, accompanied by pro-Turkey rebels from the Free Syrian Army (FSA), have already advanced some 5km (3 miles) into Syrian territory, state-run Anadolu news agency reported.
Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said the aim was to establish a 30km (19-mile) "safe zone" deep inside Syria.
But a spokesperson for the YPG, Nouri Mahmoudi, said the group had managed to repel Turkish troops and they were "forced to retreat".
Some 25,000 FSA fighters have joined the offensive on the Turkish side, rebel commander Maj Yasser Abdul Rahim told Reuters. It is not clear how many Turkish soldiers are on the ground.
Turkey's military said it had hit 45 targets on Sunday, as part of its air and ground campaign.
It earlier said dozens of air strikes had taken out 153 targets belonging to Kurdish militants.
President Erdogan vowed on Sunday to crush the Kurdish fighters in Syria, as well as the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) - which is outlawed in Turkey.
"Our jets took off and started bombing. And now, the ground operation is under way. Now we see how the YPG... are fleeing in Afrin," he said. "We will chase them. God willing, we will complete this operation very quickly."
He also warned that anyone joining pro-Kurdish protests in Turkey over the operation would pay a "heavy price". Police later dispersed demonstrators in a number of Turkish cities, including Istanbul, and made several arrests.
Have there been any casualties?
There are reports of fatalities on both sides.
The YPG said at least four Turkish soldiers and 10 Syrian rebel fighters supporting them were killed in clashes on Sunday morning, but there has been no confirmation from Turkey.
The Kurdish group also said eight civilians had been killed in an air strike on a chicken farm in the village of Jalbara on Sunday. This follows at least nine deaths in strikes on Saturday - six civilians and three fighters - though Ankara said they were all Kurdish militants.
At least two Kurdish rockets have hit the Turkish border town of Kilis in the past 24 hours, and there were reports of at least one fatality after three rockets were fired at another border town, Reyhanli, on Sunday.
The town's mayor said a Syrian national had died, and another 32 were wounded, according to the NTV broadcaster.
Turkey's military has been shelling the Afrin region since Thursday, a move which it said was in response to fire coming from the area.
Why is Turkey targeting US-backed groups?
With America's backing of the YPG, Turkey's risky offensive puts Ankara in direct confrontation with its Nato ally, the BBC's Mark Lowen on the Turkish-Syrian border warns.
There is also a danger that the number of those killed in the Syrian war - estimated to be half a million - will rise again with the opening of this new front, he adds.
The YPG (Syrian Kurdish People's Protection Units) joined forces with ethnic Arab militias to form an anti-IS alliance called the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which has been given support by the US.
How have key players reacted?
Western powers, including the US and France, are urging restraint, and the UN Security Council is due to hold an emergency debate on Monday.
"They warned us before they launched the aircraft they were going to do it, in consultation with us. And we are working now on the way ahead," US Defence Secretary Jim Mattis told reporters on Sunday.
"We'll work this out," he added.
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad condemned the incursion on Sunday, saying "the brutal Turkish aggression" on Afrin was part of Ankara's policy of "support for terrorism" in Syria.
Russia - a key ally of President Assad - also said it was concerned by the news, and withdrew some of its troops based in the area.
Moscow will demand Turkey halt its military operations at the UN meeting, according to Russian senator Frants Klintsevich, who is the deputy chairman of the defence and security committee.
Iran, another Syria ally, called for a quick end to the operation "to prevent a deepening of the crisis" in the border region between the two countries.
Syria: Turkish ground troops enter Afrin enclave
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42765697
Turkish ground troops have crossed into northern Syria, with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan vowing to crush Kurdish fighters "very quickly".
The Kurdish YPG militia says it has repelled Turkish troops in Afrin, and is shelling Turkish border areas.
Turkey considers the YPG a terrorist group, but it forms a crucial part of a US-backed alliance battling Islamic State (IS) jihadists in Syria.
The US has urged Turkish "restraint" in order to avoid civilian casualties.
What is happening in Afrin?
It is the second day of Turkey's military operation "Olive Branch".
Turkish troops, accompanied by pro-Turkey rebels from the Free Syrian Army (FSA), have already advanced some 5km (3 miles) into Syrian territory, state-run Anadolu news agency reported.
Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said the aim was to establish a 30km (19-mile) "safe zone" deep inside Syria.
But a spokesperson for the YPG, Nouri Mahmoudi, said the group had managed to repel Turkish troops and they were "forced to retreat".
Some 25,000 FSA fighters have joined the offensive on the Turkish side, rebel commander Maj Yasser Abdul Rahim told Reuters. It is not clear how many Turkish soldiers are on the ground.
Turkey's military said it had hit 45 targets on Sunday, as part of its air and ground campaign.
It earlier said dozens of air strikes had taken out 153 targets belonging to Kurdish militants.
President Erdogan vowed on Sunday to crush the Kurdish fighters in Syria, as well as the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) - which is outlawed in Turkey.
"Our jets took off and started bombing. And now, the ground operation is under way. Now we see how the YPG... are fleeing in Afrin," he said. "We will chase them. God willing, we will complete this operation very quickly."
He also warned that anyone joining pro-Kurdish protests in Turkey over the operation would pay a "heavy price". Police later dispersed demonstrators in a number of Turkish cities, including Istanbul, and made several arrests.
Have there been any casualties?
There are reports of fatalities on both sides.
The YPG said at least four Turkish soldiers and 10 Syrian rebel fighters supporting them were killed in clashes on Sunday morning, but there has been no confirmation from Turkey.
The Kurdish group also said eight civilians had been killed in an air strike on a chicken farm in the village of Jalbara on Sunday. This follows at least nine deaths in strikes on Saturday - six civilians and three fighters - though Ankara said they were all Kurdish militants.
At least two Kurdish rockets have hit the Turkish border town of Kilis in the past 24 hours, and there were reports of at least one fatality after three rockets were fired at another border town, Reyhanli, on Sunday.
The town's mayor said a Syrian national had died, and another 32 were wounded, according to the NTV broadcaster.
Turkey's military has been shelling the Afrin region since Thursday, a move which it said was in response to fire coming from the area.
Why is Turkey targeting US-backed groups?
With America's backing of the YPG, Turkey's risky offensive puts Ankara in direct confrontation with its Nato ally, the BBC's Mark Lowen on the Turkish-Syrian border warns.
There is also a danger that the number of those killed in the Syrian war - estimated to be half a million - will rise again with the opening of this new front, he adds.
The YPG (Syrian Kurdish People's Protection Units) joined forces with ethnic Arab militias to form an anti-IS alliance called the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which has been given support by the US.
How have key players reacted?
Western powers, including the US and France, are urging restraint, and the UN Security Council is due to hold an emergency debate on Monday.
"They warned us before they launched the aircraft they were going to do it, in consultation with us. And we are working now on the way ahead," US Defence Secretary Jim Mattis told reporters on Sunday.
"We'll work this out," he added.
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad condemned the incursion on Sunday, saying "the brutal Turkish aggression" on Afrin was part of Ankara's policy of "support for terrorism" in Syria.
Russia - a key ally of President Assad - also said it was concerned by the news, and withdrew some of its troops based in the area.
Moscow will demand Turkey halt its military operations at the UN meeting, according to Russian senator Frants Klintsevich, who is the deputy chairman of the defence and security committee.
Iran, another Syria ally, called for a quick end to the operation "to prevent a deepening of the crisis" in the border region between the two countries.
