over-under trips

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tekkenfan, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    i love moves like this it seems hard to find moves like this from over under id love to add this to my clinch game but looks like will take alottt of practice

     
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  2. ArtemV Silver Belt

    ArtemV
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    This is all you need if you can do it well:


     
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  3. shunyata Black Belt

    shunyata
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    Honestly a lot of Judo works in no gi clinch games. Sesai tsuri comi ashi, harai goshi, tai o toshi, yuki goshi, the various trips and reaping throws (o soto, ko soto, o uchi, and ko uchi gari) are all awesome in no gi.

    You can modify many judo throws to go off an over under, double under, or double over hooks. A deep under or over hook and a wrist control is great too. Your sleeve grip is going to translate to wrist control, tricep grip, or a second hook. Your "lapel" grip will now be a hook or a collar tie. Other than that, you do your Judo.

    The key is repetition. Drill it over and over again in gi and no gi. Attack things left and right sided. Feint a opposite side technique that chains into your strong side throw etc.

    All takedowns / throws are going to require a lot of practice before you start hitting them clean on people who know what they're doing.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  4. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    im not big on judo stuff it shard to catch strong wrestlers i feel only judo moves i like are uchi mata inside trip and i guess this
     
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  5. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    i noticed chael hitting the inside trip off double unders he did it 2 times in his fight vs rampage after his shots failed i never liked using it before cause i was so afraid of failing the move but i see lots of guys having sucess with it i think it works best as a chained move like 2 or 3rd technique in an attack like off a double leg he stuffs and you go into it
     
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  6. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    so you dont like the above technique? iv seen romero hit it few times and few others i think adam saitiev hit inside trip on romero too at sydney i was like damn when he hit it

    everybody gets into over under in mma and yet every gym i know only does like 1 or 2 moves from there most guys dont know how to defend against it they just try to throw hips back as far as they can to get away its a great position i wana get some good body locks slide bys from there

    i wish wrestling had a list of structure like how bjj and boxing have positions and set moves from each position to find online
     
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  7. ArtemV Silver Belt

    ArtemV
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    I love the inside trip, it is one of my techniques with the highest success rate. It is my go-to move from most clinches. slide (I presume you mean throw-bys) bys are great too, very good. Look into Sadulaev-type armdrags too. He gets it on everybody; Snyder, ex-world champions, european champions... everybody.
     
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  8. rmongler Brown Belt

    rmongler
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    Something like 50% of Fedors take downs in mma were just by polish throw/kosoto gake (and another 30% were knee taps from the same set-up because the other guy was running away from the step around).
     
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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  9. Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

    Uchi Mata
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    Judo works really well in the MMA clinch, though it's not the Judo that most Judo guys are good at (you don't want to spam seio nages and wait for ref standups in the cage). Sasae, harai goshi, ouchi gari, kosoto gake, osoto gari, those all work great. The clinch in MMA tends to be fairly upright which lends itself very well to Judo.
     
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  10. Kaffe Brown Belt

    Kaffe
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    The variations and details shown in this vid are really great. I think it actually might be someone posting here or their coach who is instructing.

    Edit: Reading comprehension mishap. Didn’t notice you were specifically looking trips. The vid is really worth a watch no matter though.

     
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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  11. MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

    MadSquabbles500
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    Most of the "judo" type throws like the hip throws are probably easier if you are close enough to do the no-gi style wrap-arounds, and holds. You are, of course, closer to your opponent. You have more control over opponent, and can use your core more than if you are gripping jacket with your hands.
     
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  12. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    man hip throws are hard to hit on good guys tbh especially wrestlers who lower there base i hate to turn my back incase i fail the move thats why i like uchi mata cause im off to the side and dont have to give up my back and can chain it with other attacks after like knee taps

    its getting harder and harder to take guys down now we need to start developing new techniques or learning to chain moves together to make sure we get the fight to the ground thats why i liked alpha male they have great chains and set ups for mma
     
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  13. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    hitting those type throws against good guys is alot like guys who do karate or tkd in mma it takes years and years to get good at tbh i only see judo guys get takedowns who were top top level in judo not a guy who just trained it for mma tbh i wish it did work easier cause id use them more 90% of guys when you get over under throw there hips straight back i usually like to then snap them into a front head lock and use it tot ake them to the mat if the choke isnt there

    i always see guys try to show judo throws for mma on youtube and the vid starts with the guy getting 1 under hook and wrist control nobodys gonna sit there and let you have an underhook with wrist control in the middle of the cagethat only works against the fence the only legit clinch in mma you can get and keep nowadays is over under and i s gripmy hands
     
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  14. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    so you grew up wrestling in russia huh thats awesome one thing i never see online is russian mma gyms posting training footage id love to see there techniques on wrestling for mma

    alot of guys who do folkstyle i know dont attack the upperbody much always looking for the leg shot

    russia has sambo and judo so many grappling styles there so it would seem everyone has a huge game to work with
     
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  15. Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

    Uchi Mata
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    Yeah, you have to be good at Judo for it to work. Judo takes a long time to learn, I don't think most of these are throws you can just teach people and they go out and start hitting them. And I agree, many of the Judo throws for MMA you see demonstrated are terrible, guy think they can just convert their gi grips to no-gi and it'll still work. I'll tell you where I hit these throws the most is not from an over/under with locked hands, it's generally either from double overhooks or an over/under where I'm trapping the hand on the over side in my armpit (which works pretty well with the gloves, it's not easy for uke to get his hand free). It's also important to be willing to strike; if a guy throws his hips back hard, I'm going to knee him in the sternum. I'll always take hard knees vs trying to force a throw, and generally after a few knees to the body guys will bring their hips in again. There's a reason that even though dumps are legal you never see Thai boxers throw their hips back, it's suicidal to leave yourself that open for knees. Especially if I have an underhook on one side, you've go nothing to stop those knees.

    If I get double unders, Greco style body lock twist downs or Polish throws are a lot simpler than Judo.
     
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  16. shunyata Black Belt

    shunyata
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    This is universal. It takes tons of practice and repetition to land any move over and over again. Especially so on a competent opponent.

    This is just as true of a single leg takedown as it is of harai goshi.

    I don't believe judo takedowns are any more difficult than wrestling or sambo takedowns. If you want to be good at something you have to train it over the long term. It's just that you've had less practice at them, that's all.

    The solution is more practice.
     
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  17. tekkenfan Green Belt

    tekkenfan
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    when it comes to mma though the top 4 are bjj wrestling boxing and kick boxing due to being able to be pretty decent at each within a year or so given you train properly

    u cant try to argue a guys progress in judo and karate vs someone in wrestling or bjj theres a reason the guys who do those arts successfully in mma have been doing it there whole lives vs only a few years like most others
     
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  18. shunyata Black Belt

    shunyata
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    What you just wrote makes no sense at all.

    People who practice throws get better at throws.

    Plenty of guys do some judo or sambo and use it in mma.


    You don't need to be Karo to land a Judo throw in an mma match but you will need to practice what you want to incorporate into your game.

    I was trying to add the gif of Cub Swanson landing Harai Goshi on Dennis Siver off Siver's body lock. He pulled it off one handed using only an overhook for grips. Perhaps someone more technically profficient in gifs can post it if you haven't seen the fight.

    Cub Swanson is not considered a world class Judoka by any means, but that was a beautiful Harai Goshi landed clean on Siver who does have a wrestling background.



    No one is saying submission grappling and kickboxing aren't essential in MMA.

    But you started a thread saying you love sesai tsuri komi ashi, but are concerned that it will take a lot of practice to get good at it.

    What I'm saying is that all takedowns will take a lot of practice to get good at and that it is worth it to do so.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  19. Normot Green Belt

    Normot
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    I've wrestled in college, have a blackbelt in Judo and a brown belt in bjj. I have gotten my ass kicked by judoka, wrestlers and bjj players. Seems like everything works from my perspective. I wish I could defeat a whole art.
     
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  20. Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

    Uchi Mata
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    To be clear, acquiring depth of skill in anything takes a long time. You can learn to hit some basic Judo throws pretty fast. Sasae being one of them. But the sensitivity it takes to make it work against good guys, yeah, that takes a long time. It takes a long time in wrestling too.
     
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