Ok I'll be the one to say it - Pantoja's fighting style is utterly awful

Minnja said:
Steve Erceg was a tough matchup for him especially when we found out that he can hang on the mat enough to avoid being submitted. Pantoja is fun to watch usually. While his striking can get a bit too wild, I think his overall style is very technical and his ability to mix in grappling with striking is some of the best in all divisions. He’s very slick with his transitions and imo very fun to watch.

I can see Steve Erceg being a future champion. He got taken down and out scrambled a bit but that’s against the best scrambler in the division. And despite that, he fought a very competitive fight and likely lost due to questionable fight IQ but that is likely something that he will improve on.
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I thought this was very fun fight and treat to watch. The fight prior to this against Royval was just a plain boring fight.
 
He had some pretty sick body combos of 2, 4, & even one 6-punch explosion. Landed a lot of lowkicks, & overall landed more strikes than Erceg.

His style isn't pretty but it's effective. He sets a tremendous pace & this was 1 of the 5-10 best fights of the year so far.

Oh and btw he had the FOTY lin 2023.

Not too mention being active with 3 title fights in 10 months. It's a privilege having Pantoja as champion tbh.
 
Killer Kadoogan said:
#10 ranked Erceg is convincing people that he won, then either your talent is not as great as it seems, and you're ranking system is suspect. flyweight/bantam needs to be consolidated
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OR you can give credit to Erceg and realize that #10 is probably not his real ranking. he's top 5 at least. besides that's not a sign of anytthing. the #8 guy can beat the #1 guy but cannot beat #2-#4. that's how fighting works a lot of the times. it's very rarely do you ever see a top fighter beat EVERY other guy in the top 10.

the other part is, the rankings mean practically nothing.
 
He beat royval in his last fight but I know royval is the best flyweight in the world.

Pantoja can only lay on people, He has insane heart and never quits though. wont take that from him.
 
Killer Kadoogan said:
consolidate all lower weight classes, there is not enough talent or care to keep the charades going. if #10 ranked Erceg is convincing people that he won, then either your talent is not as great as it seems, and you're ranking system is suspect. flyweight/bantam needs to be consolidated
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dumbest thing i've ever heard. flyweight isnt deep because the ufc let go a bunch of fighters and they dont promote the fighters they do have, the only times they headline, the rest of the card is shit like this saturday. also the worst flyweight fighter is a million times more exciting than anyone in MW, LHW, or HW. and BW is the best and deepest division in the sport.

consolidate LHW and HW imo, and even then it'll the worst male division by far. LHW and HW i don't even consider real MMA. i love poatan, but the fact that an old chinny kickboxer can beat champs in 2 weight classes shows how shit the talent pool is. imagine anyone at those weight classes even attempting the scrambles erceg and pantoja had without injuring themselves.
 
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Substance Abuse said:
He's 34. That's ancient for 125. He's 33 fights deep. He's fighting tougher competition as the champ. Users just fucking hate everything and don't think beyond surface level half the time.
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Seriously! And he took some tough losses and still made his way to the belt, had an absolute war with Moreno, and has never been finished. People hate on him for no reason. Erceg looked really good and leveled up a lot for this fight, and the fight wasn't boring at all.
 
I would agree that he showed more finishing instinct on the ground before he was champion, but at the same time as champ he's actively fighting the best dudes every time. I would also note that this complaint really only extends to the last two fights against Royval and Erceg -- both of which are known for being guys with exceptional scramble/get-up games who you have to consolidate position on or else they'll reverse and punish you or get back to the feet and get a rhythm going. If you go back to the Moreno bout, he was winning rounds by actively advancing to dominant positions, hunting Brandon's neck, and landing some nasty GnP. I will point out that even in these last two fights he still does this when he gets the chance, it's just that the opportunities presented to him are fewer and far between and he's just a tad more conservative about biting on them. But just look at Round 1 against Erceg: once he was able to consolidate position on Steve, he pinned him against the side of the Octagon, tried fishing for his neck, and was landing some solid ground strikes.

I will also note that however you feel about Pantoja's ground game, you sure as fuck can't complain about him being boring when he's on the feet. He doesn't take a single backwards step, has the utmost confidence in his chin, and marches his opponent down to throw bombs with every ounce of his heart and soul behind them until his opponent is either hurt or in range for a takedown.
 
Speakerbox said:
Seriously! And he took some tough losses and still made his way to the belt, had an absolute war with Moreno, and has never been finished. People hate on him for no reason. Erceg looked really good and leveled up a lot for this fight, and the fight wasn't boring at all.
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Safton said:
I would agree that he showed more finishing instinct on the ground before he was champion, but at the same time as champ he's actively fighting the best dudes every time. I would also note that this complaint really only extends to the last two fights against Royval and Erceg -- both of which are known for being guys with exceptional scramble/get-up games who you have to consolidate position on or else they'll reverse and punish you or get back to the feet and get a rhythm going. If you go back to the Moreno bout, he was winning rounds by actively advancing to dominant positions, hunting Brandon's neck, and landing some nasty GnP. I will point out that even in these last two fights he still does this when he gets the chance, it's just that the opportunities presented to him are fewer and far between and he's just a tad more conservative about biting on them. But just look at Round 1 against Erceg: once he was able to consolidate position on Steve, he pinned him against the side of the Octagon, tried fishing for his neck, and was landing some solid ground strikes.

I will also note that however you feel about Pantoja's ground game, you sure as fuck can't complain about him being boring when he's on the feet. He doesn't take a single backwards step, has the utmost confidence in his chin, and marches his opponent down to throw bombs with every ounce of his heart and soul behind them until his opponent is either hurt or in range for a takedown.
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<PlusJuan>
 
Lights Out 101 said:
He was much more exciting before he became champ. I don’t know wtf happened. Hell of a chin on him though.
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His chin is unreal. Erceg was absolutely CRACKING him with flush shots and other than the cut never seemed to actually have him hurt. Just look at his head compared to Erceg's. Even though Erceg is quite a bit bigger overall, I bet his head is at least 10-15% bigger than Erceg's. He's like a flyweight version of Tito.
 
I think when you're getting lit up on the feet and your opponent been able able to get up a couple of times you definitely start to value control over everything else on the mat.
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
OR you can give credit to Erceg and realize that #10 is probably not his real ranking. he's top 5 at least. besides that's not a sign of anytthing. the #8 guy can beat the #1 guy but cannot beat #2-#4. that's how fighting works a lot of the times. it's very rarely do you ever see a top fighter beat EVERY other guy in the top 10.

the other part is, the rankings mean practically nothing.
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or i can have my own opinion and call attention to the farce that are these multiple divisions of barely any talent and an official ranking system that means jack shite because yes, on any given day, anyone can beat anyone.
 
Speakerbox said:
dumbest thing i've ever heard. flyweight isnt deep because the ufc let go a bunch of fighters and they dont promote the fighters they do have, the only times they headline, the rest of the card is shit like this saturday. also the worst flyweight fighter is a million times more exciting than anyone in MW, LHW, or HW. and BW is the best and deepest division in the sport.

consolidate LHW and HW imo, and even then it'll the worst male division by far. LHW and HW i don't even consider real MMA. i love poatan, but the fact that an old chinny kickboxer can beat champs in 2 weight classes shows how shit the talent pool is. imagine anyone at those weight classes even attempting the scrambles erceg and pantoja had without injuring themselves.
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dumbest thing i've ever heard. flyweight, super duper flea weight, bantam chicken weight fights are for the most part boring and there's not enough talent to generate interest, obviously. no one's saying consolidate the good weight classes, gtfo. i'm saying consolidate the ones that barely generate interest.
 
Killer Kadoogan said:
dumbest thing i've ever heard. flyweight, super duper flea weight, bantam chicken weight fights are for the most part boring and there's not enough talent to generate interest, obviously. no one's saying consolidate the good weight classes, gtfo. i'm saying consolidate the ones that barely generate interest.
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Sorry, saying bantam fights are mostly boring is insane. It's a division where a guy ranked 50th has more skill than any top 10 guy at MW LHW or HW.

There is talent at FW, do you only watch the UFC????? It's shallow because the ufc doesn't put any resources into signing, promoting, or developing talent there, as evidenced by them letting go Horiguchi and even Moreno at some point. 170 and below are the only weight classes that have good fighters in 2024. Look at the rankings in the other weight classes, please, and list all the fghters that can wrestle, kickbox, and do bjj well while having good cardio for 5 rounds. I'll wait. The top 10 at HW and LHW are literally meme fighters or unproven fighters that do hard punch against meme fighters until they fall. MW is shit too.
 
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I think you are not giving Erceg credit for his own grappling abilities.

Pantoja was slick on the ground, but Erceg is a black belt who knows better than to accept a bad position, and has the skill to reverse positions.

It’s hard to land GnP or hunt submissions on a guy that can capitalize on small openings to get back up.
 
Killer Kadoogan said:
or i can have my own opinion and call attention to the farce that are these multiple divisions of barely any talent and an official ranking system that means jack shite because yes, on any given day, anyone can beat anyone.
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If anyone can beat anyone, that means the division has PARITY, making it a good division. If a division has 5 good fighters that are way better than anyone outside the top 5/10, then the division is shit. A guy ranked 15 should be able to give a top 5 guy a tough fight in a good division. You look at the higher divisions and you have absolute cans ranked in the top 15 who could never beat anyone in the top 5 ever, so most of the fights are just a waste of time. Name a single HW or LHW with head movement, leg kicks, and scrambling ability that lands over 100 sig strikes per 3 round fight.
 
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