Official Judo Thread

My knees have always been shitty...so knee bending is a novel notion to me :)

Yes on the circling entries on seoi...though to be honest with you, seoi is not my thing. I much prefer koshiwaza (if I'm doing big turning throws). Eg:



I was practicing "leaping in" on these (I generally don't exaggerated my steps like that...but I wanted to try leaping in). I also shanked the second one (lost him, had to do a few shuffle steps backwards). It seems I am destined to fuck up best when there's a camera on me.

Any comments or feedback on the hip throws other than 'do them better'?

PS: This is what I was *trying* to do....



Keep you head up. You keep looking at the floor or downward. That is a fundamental error and you need to correct it.

I hope that didn't hurt your feelings.

The exaggerated entry you did is of course a sort of action/reaction thing. That's good, as was your action/reaction work in the seoi nage video. It shows you understand action reaction to some degree.

However, those huge, exaggerated motions are not especially realistic versus a realistic opponent. You are an ikkyu, going to nationals, so you need to work on tightening things up.

From the video, you looked to have decent hip placement and balance, positioning, etc. You were working kenka yotsu, with uke in a square stance. Lefties simply won't be square to you at the level you are competing, if they are, well, throw them. So I suggest you start with uke in a strong left stance, and then work on your nagekomi. You will have to do something prepatory to get into position and to inside position. Essentially, when you start off with the grip and relative posture you want, you are training only the end-piece of the sequence. Which is fine, as long as you understand that that is what you are doing.

You will want to work backwards from there, and develop the whole sequence. Once you get that, you can set up the orientation of the crash pad and yourself and uke to land him onto the pad.
 
Ouch my tender feelings and/or ovaries:) Maybe RJ should give me a kiss and a cupcake?

Good advice on working backwards. It's easy to nail the throw when they just stand there...moving them INTO that position is where the magic happens.

Out of curiosity, how do my movements fare as an ikkyu? What should I be working on (once I get out of knee surgery)? Obviously, the head thing....anything else?
 
Actually, speaking of my knee, here's how I fucked it (don't worry, I cut out the bit where it happens). Basically, one of the guys off to the side say "bullshit...do that on me"...

Never demo things on someone who says "here, hold my beer"

 
My knees have always been shitty...so knee bending is a novel notion to me :)

Yes on the circling entries on seoi...though to be honest with you, seoi is not my thing. I much prefer koshiwaza (if I'm doing big turning throws). Eg:



I was practicing "leaping in" on these (I generally don't exaggerated my steps like that...but I wanted to try leaping in). I also shanked the second one (lost him, had to do a few shuffle steps backwards). It seems I am destined to fuck up best when there's a camera on me.

Any comments or feedback on the hip throws other than 'do them better'?

PS: This is what I was *trying* to do....



I don't know how carefully you have watched that video.

I'll point out that in the first sequence he shows, he uses minimal body movement for action reaction (a slight "bob"), but is very careful about how he places his grips and uses the angle of attack plus pressure through his grip arrangement to make the entry (this all includes "kuzushi").

It gets more complicated as he goes on, and he appears to be explaining exactly what he is doing (I don't have sound on this computer) and why.

Illiadis is VERY strong, even for his weight class at the level he competed at. That's not criticism, just a fact, and one you should take into consideration when trying to imitate him.

Conceptually, what he is showing is very, very important. Figure that out, and apply it to what you do given you attributes/weight class/ and abilities.

Those were all basically kenka yotsu positions, as well. Note how he neutralized uke sleeve hand, as well.
 
I don't know how carefully you have watched that video.

Honestly? I watched it once a few days before training and said "shit...I can do that".

No...I can't do that :)

I still can't figure out how he can generate that much power without wind up. I thought it might have been a 'stomp' or a leap in. Watching it now, it's obviously not.

I'm frikken leaping in and it's barely going over at a leisurely pace. Meanwhile, he twitches and fucking BURIES uke. How do I get me some of that?

I know he does a cross step / one step later on (and one stepping it is better than two or three stepping it) but beyond that...it's some high level shit.
 
Last edited:
Ouch my tender feelings and/or ovaries:) Maybe RJ should give me a kiss and a cupcake?

Good advice on working backwards. It's easy to nail the throw when they just stand there...moving them INTO that position is where the magic happens.

Out of curiosity, how do my movements fare as an ikkyu? What should I be working on (once I get out of knee surgery)? Obviously, the head thing....anything else?

I was going to use "mangina", but that's not fair to vaginas, as they are a very tough piece of anatomy to say the least!

You'll have to post more video of you moving around and throwing. Like I wrote earlier, you appear to have a good sense of where to put your hips, your seoi was decent, and you incorporate action-reaction into your nage komi and uchi komi. All good.

OK, do you really understand the thing about how in your crash pad work, your uke and yourself were already in position to do the entry/throw? That lefties won't be squared up to you if they are any good? You will have to have a sequence gripping and movement to get your opponent to that position, where you have sleeve control and an underhook ? Because getting to there with a decent lefty is NOT trivial.

'splain me the fundamentals of kenka yotsu grip/move/ attack sequences and we can go from there. Same for ai yotsu.

In terms of your fundamental Judo, moar video.

Because that sort of thing is what you will need to work on.

Plus keep your fucking head up. You know where your feet are, looking at them doesn't help...you anyway.
 
Honestly? I watched it once a few days before training and said "shit...I can do that".

No...I can't do that :)

I still can't figure out how he can generate that much power without wind up. I thought it might have been a 'stomp' or a leap in. Watching it now, it's obviously not.

I'm frikken leaping in and it's barely going over at a leisurely pace. Meanwhile, he twitches and fucking BURIES uke. How do I get me some of that?

I know he does a cross step / one step later on (and one stepping it is better than two or three stepping it) but beyond that...it's some high level shit.

It's internal power.

Seriously... take up aikido or aikijujutsu or tai chi and get back to me in a few years.

OK, seriously...

You have to tighten up your movement. Think snapping your hips around. Turn in front of uke instead of glomming onto him. Work on your foot speed..

The list goes on an on...

On the other hand, it might be that the sum total of what he does.

Watch carefully again. Focus on how he grips, and how he uses grips, to direct force onto uke. Then look at his body positioning. You can use the "triangle" concept if you want if that helps.

And what that does to uke posture, and hence uke ability to resist the incoming throw.

So he breaks uke down, then moves to the perfect spot, and uke hits the ground very quickly and hard.

Plus, Illiadis is a beast who can basically just grip mortal judoka into the ground without moving much if at all. Just look at his uke in the video...

But he does great judo, all the same, although many will just claim him to be very, very strong for his size. Which he is, LOL !

The whole one vs 2 vs 3 step thing is correct. Left vs right, in the last one he does a sort of "flamingo" step entry, which is a one-step entry. And not easy to do but can be very effective.
 
Actually, speaking of my knee, here's how I fucked it (don't worry, I cut out the bit where it happens). Basically, one of the guys off to the side say "bullshit...do that on me"...

Never demo things on someone who says "here, hold my beer"




Correct... never...do...that...
 
You'll have to post more video of you moving around and throwing. Like I wrote earlier, you appear to have a good sense of where to put your hips, your seoi was decent, and you incorporate action-reaction into your nage komi and uchi komi. All good.

I actually don't have that much more video; almost all of it is nagekomi. I started filming about a year ago because I wanted to review the throws to see what I was doing wrong mechanically and then try to make it better. I didn't want to bother the guys too much ('here, hold my camera') so I've only got a few.

OK, do you really understand the thing about how in your crash pad work, your uke and yourself were already in position to do the entry/throw? That lefties won't be squared up to you if they are any good?

I understand 100%

You will have to have a sequence gripping and movement to get your opponent to that position, where you have sleeve control and an underhook ? Because getting to there with a decent lefty is NOT trivial.

TBH with you, we've only got one lefty in the club and he's 14. It's not much of a fair fight.

In terms of your fundamental Judo, moar video.

Let me see what I can find when I get up!

Plus keep your fucking head up. You know where your feet are, looking at them doesn't help...you anyway.

But I have such pretty toes! :p

The head down thing has always been an issue. I *think* it came about because my judo was interrupted for a few years (judo club closed down, so I ended up doing BJJ, boxing, wrestling etc before coming back to judo at a new club several years later).

Are there any specific drills to encourage upright posture? Or does sensei just need to walk around a hit me with shinai when he sees it (he'd like that)
 
I actually don't have that much more video; almost all of it is nagekomi. I started filming about a year ago because I wanted to review the throws to see what I was doing wrong mechanically and then try to make it better. I didn't want to bother the guys too much ('here, hold my camera') so I've only got a few.



I understand 100%



TBH with you, we've only got one lefty in the club and he's 14. It's not much of a fair fight.

Well, having a lefty to do randori with would be good. In the meantime, do what we do, and your uke becomes a lefty for you to train with in drills, and even randori.

Because you have to drill shit into the ground with a decent uke, and not a lot of resistance.

One of my students, last big shiai, he fought exactly ONE righty out of 5 matches...at his level at nationals, there might be 3 or 4 competitive righties including himself...



But I have such pretty toes! :p

The head down thing has always been an issue. I *think* it came about because my judo was interrupted for a few years (judo club closed down, so I ended up doing BJJ, boxing, wrestling etc before coming back to judo at a new club several years later).

Are there any specific drills to encourage upright posture? Or does sensei just need to walk around a hit me with shinai when he sees it (he'd like that)

Good posture is good posture. A good wrestler wont' drop his head/look down. That's an invitation to snap-down city or other fun stuff. He may be in a low/jigotai looking offset stance, but he will keep his head up.

BJJ is a mixed bag in that regard, IME.

My excuse was that I'm from Texas, and we have a lot of poisonous snakes, and I spent a LOT of time outdoor hunting and fishing. Of course, a LOT is relative, in Australia you have way more than in Texas, plus those fucking spiders and invasive toads...

So, repeat to yourself as an affirmation, "There are no snakes on the tatami...there are no snakes on the tatami.". But check for spiders...
 
I get you're upset. It's difficult to know who to listen to. But heaps of guys have posted video here before. It ain't no thing but a silly string.

Here - training video with my IJF patch and name on the back



Me and Bluesbreaker training (he's graded up since this and I've torn my ACL, so not much judo for me till I fix it)



Do you need a comp video (I can probably find one) or have I established bona-fides? :p

I don't really know who you are...but I know who BKR is. I trust BKRs opinion. (BKR, how's my seio? Too high, right?)

Look...we've all been in sub-optimal clubs. We've *all* tried to do what you're doing. Are you willing to listen to experience or do you want to butt your head against the wall? The solution/s to your problem are pretty simple.


I'm more confused than any other emotion really. I'm not expressing myself very well I guess and i could very easily be misreading something.

Regarding your videos, I might be shown a move like that one week and practice it but next week is something different. The only thing taught consistently and repeatedly is foot techniques and that is what I''ve been told to do in randori.

If you're saying I'm not being taught essential things at my gym and i will have to spend time looking at videos and more or less teaching myself from them that is gonna be hard.
 
Last edited:
I'm more confused than any other emotion really. I'm not expressing myself very well I guess and i could very easily be misreading something.

Regarding your videos, I might be shown a move like that one week and practice it but next week is something different. The only thing taught consistently and repeatedly is foot techniques.

foot techniques are good. You have to have good posture and movement to do them, and good coordination. Working on them will help you. Trying to imitate Illiadis (not saying your are), not so much.
 
Does anyone here compete in both BJJ and Judo? How do you manage your time? Do your use similar strategies in both?
 
Actually, speaking of my knee, here's how I fucked it (don't worry, I cut out the bit where it happens). Basically, one of the guys off to the side say "bullshit...do that on me"...

Never demo things on someone who says "here, hold my beer"


If I knew you'd post this, I would have done my hair!
 
I'm more confused than any other emotion really. I'm not expressing myself very well I guess and i could very easily be misreading something.

I can dig it. I spent about 5 years trying to learn chen taiji via video back and forth, putting great weight into folks comments, assuming they knew WTF they were on about. I then did what you did (posted video) and got torn a new one. I said "ok, show me yours". Lo and behold...theirs was by and large shit....and the guys that had the goods, had the good in text as well.

Regarding your videos, I might be shown a move like that one week and practice it but next week is something different. The only thing taught consistently and repeatedly is foot techniques and that is what I''ve been told to do in randori.

Ok, so you're in a bit of a jam.

Judo is a weird sport in that we do it together, but alone. There's a lot of stuff that you have to puzzle out yourself. Ideally, your sensei can help guide you...but you still have to use your brain (and your time) wisely.

Eg:
One of the dumb things I see is people just blasting out uchikomi for speed. Yes, improving your footwork speed is ONE of the things uchikomi can be used for...but it's not the only thing. For example -



For many years, I had a footsweep I would do (a sort of kouchi) that I could mindless blast out for reps. Then, one day, I met a judoka who did the same footsweep....but much, much better. I slowed my uchikomi right down and then realised I had been doing this footsweep wrong for about 5 years. Not ineffective...just sub-optimal. I was able to realise this because 1) I felt the other guy doing it 2) I could compare 3) I had enough judo sense to know why mine was wrong.

This is why it's useful to have a sensei tell you "no, you're dropping your arm here" or "not, step more this way", "yes, good". You need some of that initial positive / negative feedback to figure out the feeling of things. Initially, none of us have good judo sense...so we need experienced people to constrain the scenario in order to produce the right actions

If you're saying I'm not being taught essential things at my gym and i will have to spend time looking at videos and more or less teaching myself from them that is gonna be hard.

I don't know what your goals are (judo? Bjj?). As I see it, there are two ways to resolve your issue

1) Find another club that has good curriculum / instruction.

In tachiwaza, at my club, all turning throws for beginners kick off the prototype turning throw (ogoshi). Next comes uki-goshi, tsuri-goshi and koshi-guruma. Once you can do these throws well (because they teach you a tremendous amount about turning, pulling, foot placement, timing etc), you are taught things like uchimata, harai-goshi, hanegoshi, ippon seoinage.

The reason we teach this way is that each throw serves as a primer for the next in the series. Competence in the next throw is built on the foundation of the previous one.

You need to find someone who has a system. 'Technique of the week' stuff is the slow road. Note that a blackbelt doesn't equal a good coach or instructor.

2) If you can't find another club to train it: you can do as you say (self coach). This is difficult in the beginning for the reason you identified (you don't know who to listen to) - and also because you don't yet know what's important.

If you elect to self coach, I would suggest working SOLELY on the throws that are most often repeated at your club (footsweep - deashi? hiza? Sasae? Which?). This way, you will get practice AND feedback (because presumably your sensei like these throws / think they're important).

Set yourself the goal of focusing on ONE throw for the next 3-6 months. Just one. Do whatever other stuff they suggest...but put your effort into that throw/footsweep like it owes you money at every possible moment. Doing uchikomi? Do that footsweep. Doing crashmat? That footsweep. Randori - yep, that footsweep.

While you're doing this...do the following
  • Read/watch video. A lot. If it's footsweeps, then the masterclass series of books on Ashiwaza may be of use. If you're a video guy (I am), the www.superstarjudo.com.
  • Think. Learn about the nuances, entries etc for throws. http://thedifficultway.blogspot.com.au/ has information you MUST read through, videos you MUST watch and things you MUST think about (if you're not learning them elsewhere)
  • Post video. Ask SPECIFIC questions on THAT throw. You can post here or on r/judo and good people will help you.
  • Actually try those suggestions that people give. Then post video again.
  • Watch the following video. This is from a BJC/BJA coaching process. This is a good way to teach throws...but it is also a good way to learn throws. Therefore, copy this pattern in your own studies (solo exercises, static uchikomi, moving uchikomi etc).


  • Once you start to develop a sense for this throw....Devour EVERYTHING you can find on that footsweep. You're blessed to live in the age of broadband video...so you can watch a lot of different stuff. I have something like 1000 bookmarked vids in my YT channel (protip: download them and save them...because videos get removed all the time / disappear)
This is your job for the next 3-6 months. I'm not kidding: I spent the 3 months focusing on JUST taiotoshi. I spent 6 months focusing on JUST koshi-guruma. Both of these while allowing other stuff to wash over me ("yeah that's cool...say...what can that teach my about my koshi?)

Meanwhile, keep your mat fitness up with newaza, ukemi etc.

Your last option is to simply give in and focus on BJJ and forget about judo. Not saying this to depress you but sometimes no judo is better than bad judo. Bad habits are hard to undo.

Hope this helps, if even a little. I've been in your situation more than once when trying to learn something. The preferred option is always to find competent coach...but if you have to self coach, it can be done.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top