Official Judo Thread

Has anyone had experience with the Mizuno Saiki judogi? I'm in the market.
 
Einheri said:
Has anyone had experience with the Mizuno Saiki judogi? I'm in the market.
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Sorry no. My next gi will be a Mizuno but for that my 15 Y O Moskito and Essimo would need to die first, which is never going to happen I guess.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Sorry no. My next gi will be a Mizuno but for that my 15 Y O Moskito and Essimo would need to die first, which is never going to happen I guess.
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My keikogi are all useable at club, but every time I compete I worry someone is going to look at my frayed lapels and tell me to get another.
 
Not embarrassing at all, IJF. A little bit more Limp Bizkit music on your official twitter and Kano will be rollin' in his grave.

 
Interesting that the IJF put that on their official feed, because that is 100% a shoulder lock.

I wish the IJF would officially clarify their stance on shoulder locks, and change the stated in line with actual practice.
 
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Einheri said:
Interesting that the IJF put that on their official feed, because that is 100% a shoulder lock.

I wish the IJF would officially clarify their stance on shoulder locks, and change the stated in line with actual practice.
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If i remember correctly they did clarify what is okay and what is not in like 2015 after a controversy with some guy submitting uke with a hammerlock and getting disqualified, leading to confusion in everybody online. What i took away from their rambling explanation, OFFICIALLY, shoulder locks are A-OK as long as there is any type of entanglement/garami going on (because that'll lead to classification as an ude garami variation, which is a legal technique). If that isn't the case, like with a hammerlock where you just grab the wrist and pull upwards, you can still do them as long as you don't fixate your uke's position. He has to be able to relief the pressure by changing his body position (turnover). These rules seem pretty clear to me (if they're still up to date) but since many decisions are at the referee's discretion, you see objectively unjust DQs regardless every once in a while.
 
Patrick Jane said:
If i remember correctly they did clarify what is okay and what is not in like 2015 after a controversy with some guy submitting uke with a hammerlock and getting disqualified, leading to confusion in everybody online. What i took away from their rambling explanation, OFFICIALLY, shoulder locks are A-OK as long as there is any type of entanglement/garami going on (because that'll lead to classification as an ude garami variation, which is a legal technique). If that isn't the case, like with a hammerlock where you just grab the wrist and pull upwards, you can still do them as long as you don't fixate your uke's position. He has to be able to relief the pressure by changing his body position (turnover). These rules seem pretty clear to me (if they're still up to date) but since many decisions are at the referee's discretion, you see objectively unjust DQs regardless every once in a while.
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It's still too much of a grey area though!
 
Are wrestling leg laces legal in judo? They must not be because I haven't seen them but wouldn't it be a valid way to make a flat apanyent move?
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Are wrestling leg laces legal in judo? They must not be because I haven't seen them but wouldn't it be a valid way to make a flat apanyent move?
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Not sure but intuitively my guess would be legal. Maybe they infringe on some rule i have never heard of, but my gut feeling tells me they just doesn't seem exactly like the supreme option on the ground when you don't get points for a complete roll through and when you have gi options to work with for turning opponents.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Are wrestling leg laces legal in judo? They must not be because I haven't seen them but wouldn't it be a valid way to make a flat apanyent move?
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I believe they would be legal, but wouldn't be great for Judo rules because they don't provide sustained control for osaekomi. They're primarily seen in freestyle wrestling, where a brief turn for back exposure (without sustained control) earns 2 points. For this reason, they're not generally seen in 'murican folkstyle wrestling which requires at least 3 seconds sustained control for back exposure points. Coming from a high school wrestling background, I wasn't taught ankle lace turns until I branched into low level freestyle comps.

In Judo, if uke ever goes face down flat, preferred move for me was grab back of their belt to lift them enough to get hooks in, then work fingers of both hands under their lapel behind their neck, then slide fists down to either side of their throat and apply a throat crush choke from both sides. This is incredibly effective and I don't believe I ever had that position in Judo and DIDN'T get the sub finish.
 
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ChickenBrother said:
I believe they would be legal, but wouldn't be great for Judo rules because they don't provide sustained control for osaekomi. They're primarily seen in freestyle wrestling, where a brief turn for back exposure (without sustained control) earns 2 points. For this reason, they're not generally seen in 'murican folkstyle wrestling which requires at least 3 seconds sustained control for back exposure points. Coming from a high school wrestling background, I wasn't taught ankle lace turns until I branched into low level freestyle comps.

In Judo, if uke ever goes face down flat, preferred move for me was grab back of their belt to lift them enough to get hooks in, then work fingers of both hands under their lapel behind their neck, then slide fists down to either side of their throat and apply a throat crush choke from both sides. This is incredibly effective and I don't believe I ever had this position in Judo and DIDN'T get the sub finish.
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You and @Patrick Jane are right of course it would be largely useless in judo. Still wondering if it couls be used to transition into something.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
You and @Patrick Jane are right of course it would be largely useless in judo. Still wondering if it couls be used to transition into something.
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I guess anything can be chained if you really want to use it. I could see maybe a leg weave on uke's thighs turning them over into a guard pass into osaekomi. But I think turtling is much more common in Judo than bottoming out flat. Bottoming out is mostly a thing in greco and freestyle because escape points are not a factor and if you can avoid being turned for like 5 seconds or whatever, ref will stand you back up. And those rulesets are nogi so to turn them, top guy has to rely on leg laces or weaves (in freestyle, not greco), or gut wrenches/body lifts which requires pummeling under their hips or torso.

In a gi, with uke wearing a belt, it would just be easier to use those gi grips to lift uke to get hooks in or otherwise elevate into a bodylift for throw points. But under Judo or BJJ rules, a leg lace turn is only going to put them in a better position to recompose guard - at least that's what's happened when I've trolled guys with it in BJJ. MAYBE some kind of reverse leg lace where you turn them over so they're facing the mat and then scramble into some kind of back take - I've attempted this without success and have concluded it's not very viable without sustained hip or torso control.

The ruleset I think leg laces are very viable in is Sambo where you'd chain into ankle or knee bars.
 
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ChickenBrother said:
In a gi, with uke wearing a belt, it would just be easier to use those gi grips to lift uke to get hooks in or otherwise elevate into a bodylift for throw points. But under Judo or BJJ rules, a leg lace turn is only going to put them in a better position to recompose guard - at least that's what's happened when I've trolled guys with it in BJJ. MAYBE some kind of reverse leg lace where you turn them over so they're facing the mat and then scramble into some kind of back take - I've attempted this without success and have concluded it's not very viable without sustained hip or torso control.
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What i've also seen a lot lately is creating space under uke and instead of rodeo riding them flat, tori basically legscissors sidewards and rolls over while controlling the neck into tate shiho gatame.

 
Patrick Jane said:
What i've also seen a lot lately is creating space under uke and instead of rodeo riding them flat, tori basically legscissors sidewards and rolls over while controlling the neck into tate shiho gatame.

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I had to watch it a few times to notice, but tori hits a nice belt drag from the underhook to drive uke into turtle. But once tori lets go of the belt, I think a lot of low level BJJ guys would have pulled guard right there and been able to retain guard to stand up. But like a stubborn judoka, tori stays in turtle and tries for the makikomi/peterson roll without success and ends up in bottom mount. I've been a BJJ guy for more than six years now but I still roll like this lol.
 
How much of randori your dojo usually does in both ne-waza abd tachi-waza during your training?
And, do you consider hiza-guruma and koshi-guruma as technques for beginners?
Thank you
 
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Italianissimo said:
How much of randori your does usually does in ne-waza abd tachi-waza during your training?
And, do you consider hiza-guruma and koshi-guruma as technques for beginners?
Thank you
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On average i d say 25% newaza. Koshi guruma is beginner yes but not sure about hiza guruma. Yes could be imo.
 
Italianissimo said:
How much of randori your dojo usually does in both ne-waza abd tachi-waza during your training?
And, do you consider hiza-guruma and koshi-guruma as technques for beginners?
Thank you
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Probably 66% standing, 33% ground at our club. In years past, it was about 50/50. My coach trained with Kashiwazaki and Gawthorpe, so he is a very comfortable ground guy.

Koshi guruma is beginner technique at our club. There is a Brazilian coach at a nearby club who once told me it's the first throw taught in Brazil. I don't know how true that is, but it's interesting.

As for hiza guruma... I was taught sasae much, mucu earlier. Perhaps it's a safer technique for beginners?
 
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