Not one to cry 'fix'... but 'FIX'!

[dawnslayer]

Thousands? I can't recall ever seeing a fighter not finish an RNC in that position, but maybe my memory just sucks.

Late in a fight maybe, but not when the fighter is fresh. It was BS, and something was definitely up with that fight.

Choke was as good as the choke that chandler won with earlier that night.

Looked like pro wrestlin tbh, although the big KO punch was nice, the failure of a deep RNC from a fighter who was almost 100% fresh (even at his age) is just... yeah. someone made good money.

 

[jeremyemilio]

But why would Bellator want to push Kimbo? He's nowhere close to a contender, maybe he's more popular than Ken. But he's not going to make any noise. And if they did want to push Kimbo, I don't really think Shamrock is the guy to use. I mean anyone beating Shamrock at this point isn't impressive at all.

I'll answer your first question, and then show you how you've already answered your second question yourself.

Question 1: why would Bellator want to push Kimbo?

A: Assuming it was a fix, who said Bellator had anything to do with it?

Question 2: Why use Shamrock, of all people?

A: Because, like you say, he's not very impressive at this point in his life. A fighter who is shot, or who is simply not a great fighter, is a LOT easier to pay off. What's he giving up? It's not like he's going to go on a run for a title.

Said it before, but it bears repeating: Fights are fixed for a variety of reasons, in a variety of ways, by a variety of people.

It's safe to assume we've all watched some fixed fights. It just happens that we generally don't notice, because it's pretty damned easy to fix a fight without it looking all that suspicious.

But sometimes, either due to really crappy acting, or due to a fighter who just doesn't have it in him to take his bump like a man and who instead falls over at the push of the first stiff breeze, a fixed fight looks fishy.

This fight looked fishy.

 

[jeremyemilio]

So you think only Ken was in on the fix?

That's the only possibility. But this woulkd have been a risk because prior to this we didn't know how hard Kimbo would try to defend the joke if Kimbo had paniced and tapped regardless then it wouldn't have worked.

I just don't know and if it ever became public that Bellator fixed a fight then the promotion would be dead Coker is legit he wouldn't destroy his promotion like that.


I think kimbo just really had more heart then he is given credit for and Ken was old as fuck I think the punches were legit but Ken dropped the way only a completely shot fighter drops he never had a granite chin but he dropped like Manhoef in recent fights.

Why is that the only possibility?

Fixed fights have been around a LOT longer than MMA. Guys have been getting KTFO in fixed fights for over a century.

Silly that you guys actually believe a worked fight means we go full WWE and stomp the floor and snap our hockey hair to obscure the fact that the punches aren't connecting.

 

[jeremyemilio]

I have yet to hear anyone offer an explanation as to why they would fix a fight instead of actually allowing them to simply fight.

- The fight was crap so it wasn't for entertainment value.
- Neither fighter will likely fight in Bellator again after that performance, so it's not like they were trying to build Kimbo up.
- Kimbo was favored, so if money was wagered, it would make more sense if they gave Ken the win.

Personally, I think they are just old and washed up.

To answer those questions, I'd need to know who "they" are. It seems you have the inside scoop. Care to fill us in?

 

[PinkVaporStew]

I'm not making any accusations, but I've been watching MMA for more than 20 years and I've never seen a pro fighter that had both hooks in, his opponent belly down and a RNC fully sunk, not finish the opponent off easily.

It doesn't look like Ken is cranking that choke at all.. like he's resting. His arms/back/shoulders all look relatively relaxed and not flexed at all; no signs of exertion.

 

[Glove]

It doesn't look like Ken is cranking that choke at all.. like he's resting. His arms/back/shoulders all look relatively relaxed and not flexed at all; no signs of exertion.

Nicely done, the back muscles and arms would definitely show exertion from a choke supposedly so deep in. Notice then shoulder blades, nothing. Wasn't even a choke, it is called a sleeper hold in wrestling terms.

 

[calasanzlion]

The only argument that it was not fixed is the final punch.

Well lets look at that punch. Ken sees the punch coming so he closes his eyes, tucks his chin and moves his head toward the punch? C'mon



After watching it, it is definitely fixed.

1. Look at Ken's rounded back, he never tries to pull his shoulders down, in and back up which is where most of the power in the RNC comes from not the arms.

2. Talking about the arms it doesn't even look like Ken's arms are squeezing

3. Ken makes no attempt to switch to another choke.

4. Ken makes no attempt to elbow or punch on the ground, I though Ken was seething with anger for Kimbo.

5. Ken makes not attempt to get a full figure four body lock

6. At one point Kimbo puts his arm down near his waist and Ken easily could have trapped Kimbo's right arm with his leg, BJ Penn or Captain America winter soldier style for those who do not train.

7. Ken's shot had no set up and Kimbo made no attempt to sprawl or crossface or even push Ken away with any force.

8. Kimbo supposedly now has some invisible RNC defense where he can survive a RNC from a black belt level grappler as strong as Ken with both hooks in while completely stretched out and with his hands down.

and Kimbo can TALK WHILE HES BEING CHOKED he apparently is TALKING!

When Ken loses the choke he basically just lets Kimbo go, does not move to mount Kimbo and makes no attempt to keep Kimbo's back and readjust, he waits and lets Kimbo escape first.

9. Kimbo's BJJ defense is this incredibly sharp, Yet Kimbo has forgotten all his takedown defense and has forgotten to even turtle up or roll to guard while on all fours.

10. After refusing to strike at all now Ken decides to stand right in front of the cage right in front of Kimbo, does not try to clinch and brawls with Kimbo. Sees Kimbo's punch coming and instead of moving his head to avoid it, he closes his eyes , bites down on his mouth peice and just takes one in the face.

11. The announcer says Kimobo is out I think. The later he says Kimbo is out and Kimbo escapes to his feet. The announcer clearly says Kimbo is out when Kimbo's right arm drops to his waist because anyone who has been in an RNC that is really choking them to any degree is not gonna drop their arm to their waist. You have to force your opponents arm down!

12. Need I go on.

13. If they both really suck that bad they both must have amnesia and Bellator should definitely never have them fight again.

I cannot wait for the Gracie University Breakdown for this one!

If Bellator wants to make the entrances exciting that is one thing but do not corrupt our sport its not worth letting on organization or promoter get away with fixing fights that and make a joke out of our whole sport.

 

[Raider24]

Most of you overlook the most suspicious part... The 2 minute standing grapple to open the fight where they bury their heads in each others chests. You can clearly see Ken talking to Kimbo and if you turn the sound up really loud you can hear Ken giving him instruction. Completely fixed fight!

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Most of you overlook the most suspicious part... The 2 minute standing grapple to open the fight where they bury their heads in each others chests. You can clearly see Ken talking to Kimbo and if you turn the sound up really loud you can hear Ken giving him instruction. Completely fixed fight!

Sounds like bullshit. This fight was made months ago. If it was really a work, why the fuck would they have to go over it on live TV where there are mics all over that can pick up their voices (as you claim they did) and blow their facade? That makes no sense. They had months to choreograph this, if you believe it was phony.

 

[HyperHypo]

I was yelling fix until Ken lost then I thought man these guys just suck

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Breaking it down frame by frame isn't going to prove or disprove anything. during the fight I found myself thinking, "this doesn't seem real." I have watched a lot of MMA fights over the years, and I just watched thst Dawg Fight documentary about bare knuckle mma in a backyard in Miami, and I have never felt that feeling before watching a fight. This fight was just wrong, it just wasn't legit.

 

[Doughbelly]

Any fight can look weird or smell fishy if that's what you're convinced you're seeing. There are even people out there today that think MMA is highly realistic pro-wrestling.

Weird shit happens in fights all the time, across all combat sports. MMA is the most chaotic of them all.

Ken Shamrock doesn't have a line in the sand about what is pro-wrestling and what is MMA. He has multiple bouts on his MMA record that are known to be works. They're not debatable, that's what they are.

This fight looks fishy. Ken was a beast with unreal strength. Strength is the last thing you get to keep. I'll bet he's insanely strong, even at 51.

Ken was and is a very skilled grappler. At one point, among the very best. That he couldn't finish an undefended RNC for 10-15 seconds looks fishy. Kimbo wasn't even hand fighting. Ken doesn't even look like he was cranking (or putting much strength into at all) and if you know Ken's style, he cranks the fuck out of everything.

That's what it LOOKS like. OTOH, weird shit happens in fights all the time.

I give it 50/50. Anyone who's absolutely convinced 100% that it was fixed or if it was a straight fight is being an idiot.

 

[fightdonttweet]

Any fight can look weird or smell fishy if that's what you're convinced you're seeing. There are even people out there today that think MMA is highly realistic pro-wrestling.

Weird shit happens in fights all the time, across all combat sports. MMA is the most chaotic of them all.

Ken Shamrock doesn't have a line in the sand about what is pro-wrestling and what is MMA. He has multiple bouts on his MMA record that are known to be works. They're not debatable, that's what they are.

This fight looks fishy. Ken was a beast with unreal strength. Strength is the last thing you get to keep. I'll bet he's insanely strong, even at 51.

Ken was and is a very skilled grappler. At one point, among the very best. That he couldn't finish an undefended RNC for 10-15 seconds looks fishy. Kimbo wasn't even hand fighting. Ken doesn't even look like he was cranking (or putting much strength into at all) and if you know Ken's style, he cranks the fuck out of everything.

Is this the first fight you've seen of his in 10 years or something? He's 51 and has been putting on terrible performances for a long time.

Its not fishy once you take into consideration that he's a shit fighter now. Which you should've known before the fight.

 

[Doughbelly]

Is this the first fight you've seen of his in 10 years or something? He's 51 and has been putting on terrible performances for a long time.

Its not fishy once you take into consideration that he's a shit fighter now. Which you should've known before the fight.

Did you even read my conclusion that it's inconclusive because how things can look and how things actually happened don't necessarily line up in reality? Or did you cut it before you could read it?

Have you trained with old men? When a strong, 200 lbs+ early middle aged man cranks an RNC on you, it really is no different than when a 200 lbs 25 year old does it to you.

I've seen all of Ken's fights in the past 10-15 years. Haven't actually been on the mat with him in 15.

If you're absolutely certain that it was a fix, you're being stupid.

If you're absolutely certain that it wasn't a fix, you're being stupid.

 

[MebyKO]

I'm not totally convinced its a fix but here are several moments during the fight that makes it look like a fix pro wrestling style

- kimbo is clinched up with ken with their heads next to each other (very common in pro wrestling when wrestlers talk to each other on what moves to perform next)

- when they separate from the clinch, there is no real struggle, almost as if they both decided it was time (watch their hands)

- ken takes kimbo down comically easily unlike the first takedown attempt where kimbo actually defended before the clinch

- ken throws no punches while on kimbo's back, sinks a undefended rnc but somehow kimbo escapes (if ken was too weak to finish it then why was he able to take down a bigger man and also he should of been pushed around by kimbo while in the clinch just like in the tito fight)

- ken gets dropped and then looks at the ref as if to signal he's done (kimbo comes from behind to get the win, something that is all too common in pro wrestling when both participants are made to look good)

 

[fightdonttweet]

Have you trained with old men? When a strong, 200 lbs+ early middle aged man cranks an RNC on you, it really is no different than when a 200 lbs 25 year old does it to you.

One of the dumbest things I've read on sherdog. Congrats.

Also, you seriously need to go watch all those other fights where a rear naked choke wasn't finished. There's even one in this same broadcast. Of course, no one's calling for the fix.

 

[TheCount123]

Maybe Ken's just old and useless these days and the fight was actually legit. We will never know.

 

[Irenaeus]

One of the dumbest things I've read on sherdog. Congrats.

It's true, though. The RNC is one of the strongest chokes there is, and anybody who thinks Shamrock can't finish it when undefended because a lack of strength due to his age simply doesn't train.

Weird things happens in fights, so it's certainly not a definitive. But it was dismissing it as a possiblity seems ignorant. It's the most suspicios looking fight in a major organisation in years.

 

[jeremyemilio]

One of the dumbest things I've read on sherdog. Congrats.

Also, you seriously need to go watch all those other fights where a rear naked choke wasn't finished. There's even one in this same broadcast. Of course, no one's calling for the fix.

Because they don't look like fixes. This did. It looked like two guys faking that they were fighting, but not really fighting.

People who keep insisting it wasn't a fix keep bringing up shit about how fighters sometimes defend rear naked chokes or how sometimes fighters don't strike on the ground or how sometimes fighters fall off balance when opponents go for takedowns, etc, etc, etc.

You could defend a pro wrestling match as a real fight by doing this exact same type of breakdown. "Well, yeah, but if you get hit with a chair you're not gonna know what's up for a while... so of course he had time to climb up on the top rope and jump off and hit him with a flying elbow."

But you never address the meat of the issue which is that guys pretending to fight look different than guys really fighting.

This fight looked like guys pretending to fight.

It's very odd to me that there are people who watch lots of fights who honestly don't find that, from the very start right up until Kimbo unleashed the first real shots of the match in the final flurry that ended it, this fight looked like two guys pretending to fight.

 

[Raider24]

Sounds like bullshit. This fight was made months ago. If it was really a work, why the fuck would they have to go over it on live TV where there are mics all over that can pick up their voices (as you claim they did) and blow their facade? That makes no sense. They had months to choreograph this, if you believe it was phony.

You really have to ask that? Go watch a pro wrestling match... The veteran scripts most of the fight while in the ring. They do it on the fly so it's more authentic. You don't choreograph anything and I don't know if Bellator was aware. It was a cash grab by Ken and Kimbo