Muay Thai guys please enlighten me ...

[Noodles03]

@Allen , you can ask shincheckin about the Muay Thai schools in LA; he is pretty knowledgeable.

 

[RTD1]

There are a ton of "Muay Thai schools" in the US. But it seems that most of them have turned into cardio kickbox type joints where people do focus mitt drills, thai pad drills, maybe kick the thai bag some and that's it, no sparring. And a lot of the thai pad drills are long pre-arranged attack and defense combos, that you need to memorize for your belt praijet test. I trained Muay Thai back in the mid 1990's and I don't even recognize the shit that passes off as MT at these places.

 

[SandisLL]

Well, I think, cardio kickbox isn't even close to Kick Light kicboxing for beginners under WAKO rules in EU.... so easy cardio kick is more as entertainment........

About suitability for MMA, I think, kicboxing kicks aren't less effective than Muay Thai kicks and in early times when kicboxing become popular, famous kickboxers were former karatekas etc. So we cannot blame even karate for kicks weakness etc.

However, kicboxing rules are quite different than Muay Thai rules!!! and especially this is reason, why MT is looked as more suitable for MMA.
Kicboxing is with strict clinch time limits and really strictly limits what is allowed to deliver in the clinch or even do in the clinch.
Differences appears in allowed takedowns methods and so on etc.
So MT rules is far closer to MMA than kicboxing rules and this helps a lot to addapt for MMA.

 

[j123]

Well, I think, cardio kickbox isn't even close to Kick Light kicboxing for beginners under WAKO rules in EU.... so easy cardio kick is more as entertainment........

About suitability for MMA, I think, kicboxing kicks aren't less effective than Muay Thai kicks and in early times when kicboxing become popular, famous kickboxers were former karatekas etc. So we cannot blame even karate for kicks weakness etc.

However, kicboxing rules are quite different than Muay Thai rules!!! and especially this is reason, why MT is looked as more suitable for MMA.
Kicboxing is with strict clinch time limits and really stirctly limits what you ar allowed to deliver in the clinch or even do in the clinch.
Differences appears in allowed takedowns methods and so on etc.
So MT rules is far closer to MMA than kicboxing rules and this helps a lot to addapt for MMA.

Yes and no

MT for the most part (actual MT and not a KB gym labelled as MT) isn't a better carry over to MMA. Kickboxing (K1/Dutch/sanda) is actually has a better carryover due to stance and more usage of hands.

Trad. MT stance of being upright is landing you in takedown city, also the clinch is an invitation to a double leg.
80:20 rear leg to lead leg isn't good for TDD and sprawling. Clinching posture is tending shoulder width and going kick to jock, you're basically inviting a bodylock

Even the physique is different as well, MT hates manlets with a passion so everyone is hella lanky. You got guys at 6'1-6'3 at the top end spectrum making 155. 6'0 at feather is normal in, MT not so much in MMA.

KBrs on the other hand is more natural in terms of height to weight class.

 

[SandisLL]

Okey, thank you for insight into MT and MMA.

 

[Centaur]

bjj is softer. Easier to market to kids and families. Muay Thai is difficult to do, hard on the body and sparring can leave you beat up. It’s intimidating to start and requires a higher level of physicality to begin.

Also, the uniforms. There's something about having a Gi and belt system that people, especially parents, are attracted to. I've literally had parents tell me that if their kids could wear their TKD or Karate uniform to a Muay Thai class they'd sign them up right away. I'm like "but Muay Thai shorts are some much cooler than pajamas.."

 

[SandisLL]

Yes, my locality suffered from low parents interest in Freestyle ( Olympic ) wrestling and Greko - Roman wrestling for their kids, despite classes in some clubs were government subsidised and taught by highly educated trainers .....
Highly demanding physical conditioning, lack of belt system.
One municipality for example, fully subsidises additional classes for kids ( physical conditioning) and small local boxing gym offers train teenagers for free at least in their first 24 months of training.... municipality helps them with subsidies because they wish to keep teens from streets.....
In this small city commercially oriented local dojo with belts gets more interest from kids parents.

 

[aerius]

Yes and no

MT for the most part (actual MT and not a KB gym labelled as MT) isn't a better carry over to MMA. Kickboxing (K1/Dutch/sanda) is actually has a better carryover due to stance and more usage of hands.

Trad. MT stance of being upright is landing you in takedown city, also the clinch is an invitation to a double leg.
80:20 rear leg to lead leg isn't good for TDD and sprawling. Clinching posture is tending shoulder width and going kick to jock, you're basically inviting a bodylock

Even the physique is different as well, MT hates manlets with a passion so everyone is hella lanky. You got guys at 6'1-6'3 at the top end spectrum making 155. 6'0 at feather is normal in, MT not so much in MMA.

KBrs on the other hand is more natural in terms of height to weight class.

It's hard to say since there's so many different styles & stances in Muay Thai. When we think MT we tend to think of the very upright, light front leg, kick & clinch heavy style that's the current meta in the big Thai stadiums. Basically, the guy on the left in this picture.

But wait, there's more! Here's the same fighter on the right in a different fight. That's not too far off from a KB or MMA stance, it's wider than usually seen in MT and closer to a 40/60 weight balance than 20/80, lengthen that stance a touch and he'd look right at home in an octagon.

With that said, I'd generally agree that kickboxing is a better carryover for MMA than MT. MMA fighters are not going to be anywhere near as good at MT as Nong-O, given the skill levels that MMA fighters are likely to achieve in MT and KB the latter will usually be more effective for MMA at that particular skill ceiling. But if you taught Nong-O how to defend takedowns and subs, he'd casually wreck everyone in the lower weight classes.

 

[j123]

Also, the uniforms. There's something about having a Gi and belt system that people, especially parents, are attracted to. I've literally had parents tell me that if their kids could wear their TKD or Karate uniform to a Muay Thai class they'd sign them up right away. I'm like "but Muay Thai shorts are some much cooler than pajamas.."

Part of it has to do with progressive rank. Especially in western countries where having a promotion that shows quantitative results is easier to relate to then "we all just train together, if someone who's been training less than I have ends up better, then that's that"

You could always do the sambo route with gi jacket, belt, shorts... best of both worlds I guess

 

[SandisLL]

In fact we have progressive ranks for Freestyle ( Olympic )Wrestling and Greko - Roman Wrestling.
They are sports classes, earned in tournaments. Level of tournament, opponents level, wins/ loss, criterias for ranking. But they aren't gi and coloured belts.
Thank's to God, nobody of teens calls himself as a boxer or kickboxer until they have registered tournaments records, then yes, they say; I'm beginner in xxxx.
In fact this commercial dojo isn't MC Dojo at all, they demands alot of work to earn each coloured belt rank, dropout rate also not low.

 

[Kenneth Andrews]

It's pretty much been covered here. But MMA is just more popular than Muay Thai or any kickboxing in the states for that matter.

So not only does Muay Thai need to be taught from an MMA perspective but it's more cost effective to share space. So working with other instructors at a gym just makes sense.

Whereas as jiu jitsu can be taught from a jiu jitsu perspective with no thought of mma.

But there is also a lack of high quality Muay Thai Instructors. So most instructors are former MMA fighters with good striking. It looks like Muay Thai. But as others have said is more like boxing with kicks; Maybe with a karate twist.

 

[globalmeg]

There is definitely a lack of real Muay Thai gyms in the Denver area. Supposedly, Easton in Arvada has more MT base but I haven't been and didn't really get a MT vibe from their main Denver location. I also found Bang MT to be super boring and the same old repetitive drills for nearly all of the class. No padwork or bag work so they're def more Dutch style than Thai style. I also checked out Denver Thai Boxing. Nice guy but similar style class with repetitive drills. For someone who's trained before, it was pretty boring. Got some good cardio in at the very end but overall, not tough enough. 303 was mainly MMA focused and they make new people hit the bag the entire class as part of some hazing ritual. I did push ups and stuff and got in trouble. Dumb.

There's a new place opening up this month called Tankhead Thai Boxing. They have a Louisiana location and they've apparently sent people to Thailand to fight. The instructor is also an Asian guy which bodes well. Maybe he's actually Thai. I'm going to check it out and see.